“I just want everybody to embrace health and safety as a tool of your business that’s going to make you money. And it’s actually going to improve the quality and the standard of your work and that, you know, you will attract really good people to your business if you have a reputation for safety.”
-Gavin Coyle, CEO of the Coyle Group
For many of us, health and safety bring to mind bureaucracy and process, a long list of rules to follow, procedures to implement, and equipment to buy and maintain. Yet, we know that safety is integral to business; it keeps our workers protected from harm and our job sites from being a hazard to all involved.
Gavin Coyle sees greater depth in workplace safety; he believes focusing on it can increase profitability, marketability, and reliability for any size company. With a consulting group that creates safety plans for contractors of all sizes, Gavin captured these ideas in his book, Workplace Safety On a Budget: How to stop and prevent accidents and injuries without sacrificing the bottom line.
Listen in as Gavin explains how a safe workplace can transform your business and be cost-effective and sustainable.
Topics discussed in this interview:
- ChatGPT/Google Bard
- Gavin’s target market, his wheelhouse
- His inspiration to enter health and safety
- Defining accidents that cemented Gavin’s career choice
- Adjusting to regulations based on location
- Elevating safety choices regardless of standard
- Implementing a safety plan early is necessary
- How do attitudes differ on safety from country to country?
- Better safety leads to more profit
- Serving contractors of all sizes
- Building in company-wide accountability
- Safety as a marketable quality
- Rapid fire questions
Network with Gavin on LinkedIn, check out his book Workplace Safety On A Budget: How to stop and prevent accidents and injuries without sacrificing the bottom line and visit his site, gavin-coyle.com.
For more Construction Disruption, listen on Apple Podcasts or YouTube
Connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, or LinkedIn
This episode was produced by Isaiah Industries, Inc.
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
Podtrac - https://analytics.podtrac.com/privacy-policy-gdrp
Chartable - https://chartable.com/privacy
Intro/Outro:
Speaker:Welcome to the Construction
Intro/Outro:
Speaker:Disruption podcast,
Intro/Outro:
Speaker:where we uncover the future of
Intro/Outro:
Speaker:design, building, and remodeling.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:I'm Todd Miller of Isaiah
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Industries, manufacturer of
Todd Miller:
Speaker:specialty metal roofing and other
Todd Miller:
Speaker:building materials. Today, my
Todd Miller:
Speaker:co-host is Seth
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Heckaman. How are you today, Seth?
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:Doing well. How are you?
Todd Miller:
Speaker:I'm doing well also.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:So I know you and I have
Todd Miller:
Speaker:talked a little bit about a topic
Todd Miller:
Speaker:that I think we're going to be
Todd Miller:
Speaker:hearing more and more about
Todd Miller:
Speaker:in everything, not just
Todd Miller:
Speaker:construction, but in the
Todd Miller:
Speaker:entire world.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:And you haven't dug into it a
Todd Miller:
Speaker:whole lot yet.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:But that is the
Todd Miller:
Speaker:topic of A.I.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:and A.I.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:generated text
Todd Miller:
Speaker:that everyone's doing with ChatGPT
Todd Miller:
Speaker:and Google Bard and a number of
Todd Miller:
Speaker:others. So
Todd Miller:
Speaker:to me, that's something that's
Todd Miller:
Speaker:incredibly disruptive.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:So seems like an important thing to
Todd Miller:
Speaker:talk about here on the show,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:although we do have a guest also who
Todd Miller:
Speaker:is not talking about A.I..
Todd Miller:
Speaker:But I was sitting in a meeting
Todd Miller:
Speaker:this week and
Todd Miller:
Speaker:folks were brainstorming.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:And I know as I say this,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:I'm probably driving a stake
Todd Miller:
Speaker:through Ethan's heart.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Ethan's one of our behind the scenes
Todd Miller:
Speaker:folks here. And he also
Todd Miller:
Speaker:does a lot of writing
Todd Miller:
Speaker:and an incredible writer.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:But as I said in this meeting this
Todd Miller:
Speaker:week, we were trying to come up with
Todd Miller:
Speaker:some marketing ideas.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:It was a church-related thing.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:I was there, so a guy just started
Todd Miller:
Speaker:plugging stuff in, come up with
Todd Miller:
Speaker:marketing slogans on this and this,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:and he was using ChatGPT.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:I used Google Bard more
Todd Miller:
Speaker:than I have ChatGPT.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:But yeah, this thing was coming up
Todd Miller:
Speaker:with really some good marketing
Todd Miller:
Speaker:slogans. And you know, one of the
Todd Miller:
Speaker:things I got to thinking about as I
Todd Miller:
Speaker:listened to that was
Todd Miller:
Speaker:probably an up-and-coming career is
Todd Miller:
Speaker:going to be A.I.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:editor. So people who are good at
Todd Miller:
Speaker:writing, who simply can go
Todd Miller:
Speaker:in and edit A.I.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:generated things.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:But
Todd Miller:
Speaker:you know, the other thing I'm
Todd Miller:
Speaker:hearing a lot about is A.I.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:generated video
Todd Miller:
Speaker:and the fact that you'll just be
Todd Miller:
Speaker:able to plug in and, you know, pop
Todd Miller:
Speaker:up a video that's been generated
Todd Miller:
Speaker:on a particular topic and,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:you know, that's going to have a
Todd Miller:
Speaker:huge impact on marketing
Todd Miller:
Speaker:and all the world
Todd Miller:
Speaker:that we live in so much helping
Todd Miller:
Speaker:contractors generate leads
Todd Miller:
Speaker:and things like that.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:So this morning before we started
Todd Miller:
Speaker:recording,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:some of our audience realizes
Todd Miller:
Speaker:that a lot of times we'll start
Todd Miller:
Speaker:episodes with a dad joke
Todd Miller:
Speaker:or something that really is a
Todd Miller:
Speaker:groaner.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:So I asked ChatGPT,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:I said, Write me a
Todd Miller:
Speaker:dad joke about something
Todd Miller:
Speaker:new.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:That's all I said.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:In this process, I discovered
Todd Miller:
Speaker:that while ChatGPT may
Todd Miller:
Speaker:be good at some things
Todd Miller:
Speaker:and excuse me, this is actually
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Google Bard, it is
Todd Miller:
Speaker:really bad at writing jokes.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:So let me tell you that if joke
Todd Miller:
Speaker:that Google Bard gave
Todd Miller:
Speaker:up with.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:It's asked, What do
Todd Miller:
Speaker:you call a newt, N-E-W-T,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:which I guess it pulled because
Todd Miller:
Speaker:I asked it to write a joke about
Todd Miller:
Speaker:something new.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:What do you call a newt
Todd Miller:
Speaker:that just got a promotion?
Todd Miller:
Speaker:The answer is a newt
Todd Miller:
Speaker:manager.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:I really had to work to even figure
Todd Miller:
Speaker:out what the joke was, but.
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:That's a worse dad joke than you
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:typically come up with.
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:So yes, it's.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Yeah.
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:It's got a ways to go.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:So the Bard is
Todd Miller:
Speaker:not particularly good at jokes,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:apparently. But anyway,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:I think there's a lot of useful
Todd Miller:
Speaker:stuff there. People talk about being
Todd Miller:
Speaker:scared of it and stuff and
Todd Miller:
Speaker:I guess I can relate to that.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:I am concerned about how it impacts
Todd Miller:
Speaker:job market, but it seems
Todd Miller:
Speaker:like any time you have technology
Todd Miller:
Speaker:come along that feels
Todd Miller:
Speaker:like it's going to take jobs,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:it actually also creates jobs
Todd Miller:
Speaker:of some sort.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:And so I think, we'll
Todd Miller:
Speaker:see a little bit of both happen with
Todd Miller:
Speaker:this. So anyway,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:are you ready to go ahead and get it
Todd Miller:
Speaker:rolling and quit listening to me
Todd Miller:
Speaker:babble now Seth?
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:That's okay, sounds great. Here we go.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Okay.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Well, today's guest I'm very excited
Todd Miller:
Speaker:about. Today's guest is Gavin Coyle.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Gavin is CEO of Coyle
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Group, based in County Dublin,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Ireland.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Coyle Group provides safety
Todd Miller:
Speaker:consulting services to contractors
Todd Miller:
Speaker:across the globe.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:And Gavin himself is known
Todd Miller:
Speaker:as the Safety CEO.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Gavin, welcome to Construction
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Disruption. It's a real pleasure to
Todd Miller:
Speaker:have you here today.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Hey Todd, delighted to be here.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Thanks very much.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And looking forward to having a
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:chat.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Well, I know it'll be a great
Todd Miller:
Speaker:discussion. So
Todd Miller:
Speaker:in looking at Coyle Group, I
Todd Miller:
Speaker:know that you guys provide
Todd Miller:
Speaker:consulting and safety
Todd Miller:
Speaker:management consulting,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:but you also do some providing
Todd Miller:
Speaker:safety managers under contract
Todd Miller:
Speaker:to go out and spend time
Todd Miller:
Speaker:in the field with your clients, as I
Todd Miller:
Speaker:understand it.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Can you just kind of give us an
Todd Miller:
Speaker:overview of what your company
Todd Miller:
Speaker:does and you know who your typical
Todd Miller:
Speaker:clients are, as far as size
Todd Miller:
Speaker:or maybe certain
Todd Miller:
Speaker:industries in construction that
Todd Miller:
Speaker:there are genres of construction
Todd Miller:
Speaker:they work with?
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Yeah, thanks very much.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And so
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:we kind of created a niche for
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:ourselves in the energy sector
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and power generation and utilities
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and a large
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:proportion, if not all of our
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:clients operate in those areas.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And I suppose
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:it was a strategic vision
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:for myself in terms of
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:wanting to work with
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:premium-type clients
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:in a highly regulated area
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and to have assets to protect.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And so what we
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:found was there was a gap
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:whereby these particular
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:companies were
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:either having maintenance schedules
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:in terms of outages and shutdowns
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and overhauls, or they
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:were building new assets.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And so they wouldn't have
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:the same level of capacity of
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:health and safety within the
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:overall organization on a continuous
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:basis to deal with the level of
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:the amount of projects that they
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:were dealing with.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:So we tapped into that market very
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:early in terms of providing
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:an end source solution where they
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:could come to us and we would give
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:them a safety person who had
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:20 plus years experience
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:in that particular industry
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:that could manage the overall health
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and safety for that project, to
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:bring it through from the start
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:right through to the end.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And so over
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:the years, we've become very
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:established with a reputation that
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:we don't just provide
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:the people, we also provide a
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:managed service behind that.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:So I would work with the leaders
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and with the clients
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and their team on strategy.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And you know what it
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:is that we can get
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:out of this project that we could
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:use as a future
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:experience for future projects
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:like lessons learned.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And how do we implement
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:that and how do we change systems
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and change cultures in order to
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:deal with and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:protecting against
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:scenarios and certain risks
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:are becoming more consistent
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:within those type of environment.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:So it's been very challenging but
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:very rewarding.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And the type of people that we deal
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:with on a daily basis are
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:extremely knowledgeable and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:technical in their own areas and in
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:their own right.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And I kind of get a great buzz
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:from working with people like that
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:because you could just feed off
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:their enthusiasm and their
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:motivation and their, you know,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:their want to get up and go
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and deliver a project, not
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:just a safe project, but a quality
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:project.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And, you know,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:we are where we are today, which,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:you know, major multinational
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:clients across the world building
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:wind farms and power stations.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And it's exciting and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:if not, you know,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:stressful at times.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Oh, absolutely.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:I can imagine, and
Todd Miller:
Speaker:certainly I assume those are
Todd Miller:
Speaker:projects that are on tight
Todd Miller:
Speaker:timetables a lot of times also.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:And, you know, sometimes tight
Todd Miller:
Speaker:timetables can accidentally
Todd Miller:
Speaker:become the enemy of safety
Todd Miller:
Speaker:also, I suppose.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:But so,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:I'm kind of curious,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:what interested you
Todd Miller:
Speaker:in this line of work and what drove
Todd Miller:
Speaker:your passion for safety?
Todd Miller:
Speaker:I know I heard you tell a little bit
Todd Miller:
Speaker:of that story on a podcast
Todd Miller:
Speaker:you were on recently with our mutual
Todd Miller:
Speaker:friend Jim Johnson,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:but we'd love to have you share it
Todd Miller:
Speaker:here on some of that here on this
Todd Miller:
Speaker:show as well.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And yes, so like
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:I live in Ireland, small, obviously,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:country and surrounded
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:by water.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And at
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:one stage, maybe 20 odd
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:years ago, and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:we became a magnet
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:for American clients
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:who wanted to probably
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:step a foot into Europe.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And we were the first country that
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:probably has intensive
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:land base, if you like.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And we had the likes of
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Warner-Lambert, which is now
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Pfizer's.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:We didn't have Hewlett-Packard
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and Compaq,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:All the big names
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:that were trying to establish a
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:foothold in the European markets
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:were coming into our and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:building hyperscale projects.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And I just come out of school.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And one of the main requirements
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:on these projects was a full time
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:health and safety officer, which
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:was never really a thing
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:in Ireland.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And a lot of people scratching their
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:heads going, What do you mean, a
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:full time health and safety officer?
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:What does that person do and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:what kind of qualifications do these
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:people have? So
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and I was told
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:to go to meeting the health and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:safety meeting and sort of really
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:liked, you know, the whole concept
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:of, well, we're not just here to
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:work, we're also here to get to work
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:safely, and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:we want everybody going home
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:to their families.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And I totally embraced
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:that whole logic.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And there was a whole sort of
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:systematic approach the
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:American guys were bringing with
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:them that they had built in their
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:own models within the States.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And so it was a very good learning
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:curve for me to sort of understand
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:all of these systems and understand
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:the logics that they put together
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:in order to make a safe project.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And, you know, you're talking to a
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:couple of thousand people maybe
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:on the project at any one time, up
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:to 10,000 people, in some cases,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:construction workers. So you're not
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:talking small scale stuff,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:but in around the same time or the
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:same time periods.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And as
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:I grew within the
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:contracting business that I was
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:working for, and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:I started looking after more and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:more of their projects, not just
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:the major hyperscale stuff, but
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:it was a project in talking about
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Four Seasons hotel projects, and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:I would have been looking after that
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:as well. So I was kind of stretched
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:between going around to multiple
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:different projects and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:I was on the Four Seasons project
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:one morning, one was banging on the
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:door and it was basically
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:someone at site sharing that there
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:was a man down.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And that's when
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:we went out to have a look.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:It was a young
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:guy, 17 years of age,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and had fallen into a hole head
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:first and he was fighting for his
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:life in a in a hole.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:So we managed
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:to get him out and I went
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:to the ambulance with him and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:within 24 hours he was
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:pronounced dead due to
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:his head injuries.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And so it was it was a very
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:sort of wake up
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:traumatic time for myself,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:obviously, for the family was much
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:worse. But to see a
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:guy fighting for his life in
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:the hole and then in the
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:in the ambulance and then in the
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:end and it's
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:it's something that would stay with
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:me for the rest of my life.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:My younger brother
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:would in a short period of time
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:after that fatality, had a
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:tragedy of his own where himself
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and two of his friends drowned
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:off the coast of Ireland, where they
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:were just waist high, throwing balls
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:at each other and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:a freak wave came in and the
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:undercurrent stuck them at sea.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:So I suppose within
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:a 24 month period,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:I had two massive events,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:traumatic events in my life.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:I was kind of like, Okay.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Is health and safety really for me?
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Wow.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And if it is like
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:you're going to get, you're going to
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:have to be, have the tools
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and have the mindset and the
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:sort of the
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:push to to continue
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:on in this. Otherwise, it
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:would just break me because I was
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:very young and and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:there was no such thing as
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:counseling or anything at that time.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And so no one was talking about,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:you know, the aftershock of
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:of events.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:But it definitely did shape my
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:views and my empathy towards people.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:You know, I talk to people
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and on the basis of,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:you know, I could be that person
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:myself.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:You know, what we want from the from
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:the conversation in terms of,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:you know, not talking down to
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:people, talk to them at
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:their own level, bring them with
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:you, learn from them,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:give them your experience, share,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:collaborate together and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:walk in a way that
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:you treat people with respect and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:you expect that respect come back to
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:you. And that has been
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:stuck with me for years
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:where it's still worked on projects
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:now. People would come
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:over shaking hands. I remember when
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:you when you were on this particular
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:project. I don't be on the sites as
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:much of the projects as much.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And I got great buzz
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:from the whole collaboration
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:to certainly some characters
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:in the construction and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:especially the auction industry
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:anyway, and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:I hope it continues to be so.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:But in terms of our health and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:safety that, you know, it's moved
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:on quite a lot since I started
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:2017
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:when I started on the path for
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:health and safety.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Well, that's really something going
Todd Miller:
Speaker:through those, you know, couple of
Todd Miller:
Speaker:tragedies, one of them extremely
Todd Miller:
Speaker:personal. And yet, you know,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:out of that, it drove
Todd Miller:
Speaker:you to a life's path.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:And so I'm
Todd Miller:
Speaker:kind of curious. I know the Coyle
Todd Miller:
Speaker:group, you know, works with
Todd Miller:
Speaker:contractors across the globe.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:It seems like safety regulations
Todd Miller:
Speaker:to some degree vary geographically,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:but by the same token, safety
Todd Miller:
Speaker:is safety. So how does
Todd Miller:
Speaker:that impact your business?
Todd Miller:
Speaker:How do you
Todd Miller:
Speaker:how do you adjust to the fact that,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:you know, different areas probably
Todd Miller:
Speaker:have different regulations, but yet
Todd Miller:
Speaker:again, safety is safety?
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Yeah, it's
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:a great question.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And like once you have
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:a system that is
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:organic to your business
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and you can put your finger
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:on any part of that system and it
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:is live and it is actionable
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and it is, you know
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and something that you can stand
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:over.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:That's a real system.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Unfortunately, we've seen in the
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:past where people have brought
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:in maybe outside consultants
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:or management consultants and said,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Look, you know, build me a system
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:because a company is massive
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:growth and they tend to
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:just pick sort of a generic model
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:system and try and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:sort of pinhole that company into
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:that particular system.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And once you don't
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:have any sort of
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:input for sort of,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:how would you say? Once you don't
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:have your own footprint on that
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:system, you can't really stand over
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:it. And then, you know, when
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:something goes wrong,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:everybody's going, How come the
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:system didn't pick this up and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:whatever else?
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:System didn't pick it up because
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:people didn't embrace the system
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:from the start and build the system
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:from the ground up.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:So we're always conscious to say
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:to people, you know, don't jump
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:into creating a management system
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:that is kind of an off-the-shelf
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:approach.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:When you decide that you want to
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:build the system, you think
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:about this in the two-year type
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:project where you're just going to
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:feed in information into exactly
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:how you operate as a business,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:because we all have our own nuances
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:as regards how we deliver
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:at projects, not just in the safety
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:perspective for quality and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:operations and people.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And it's all those little nuances
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:that actually make up your policies
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and your actions with how
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:you're going to manage that system.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And we're very, very strong about
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:saying to people, you
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:know, Make it about you so that if
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:anybody walks into that business,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:that all of your team can put
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:their finger on any piece of that
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:system and say, That's us.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:That's what we stand for.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:That's how we deliver.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:That's us. It may change because
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:regulations might change.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:As you say, you might go into a
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:different country.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And but ultimately, there's a
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:standard there that everybody is
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:accustomed to, and you shouldn't
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:change that for anybody, other than
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:the fact that you might have
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:local regulations where a form
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:might be a different definition,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:or you might have to report
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:it in a different way.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:But those are obstacles that can be
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:overcome from a local expertise
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:type of scenario where you're
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:putting in somebody just say, Look,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:can you navigate us here?
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:So we've, for example, done
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:a recent project for
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:offshore wind turbines
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:to be built.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And the question was
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:which which regulations are we going
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:to follow here, guys?
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And it was all major
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:league of the patterns involved, you
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:know, lots of money being spent
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:by the clients.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And we were kind of like it's kind
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:of not really relevant in terms of
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:once you have the system
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:that is, you know, credit
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:is internationally approved,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:the likes of an ISO system or an
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:OSHA system.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:That was traveled right across
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:the world, and then you just create
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:that nuance. So what we've done was
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:we created webinar
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:videos for all of their management
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:team to say, Here's the legislation,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:you used it before, here's the other
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:legislation that's actually meeting
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:you on the notes
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:for this particular project.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Here's the higher standards that we
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:believe you should follow that is
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:above those regulations.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And so if something does fall
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:down to the holes, we can always
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:say, yet we took the legislation
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:as a minimum standards,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:but this is our standards.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:I love that.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:So it sounds like a lot of
Todd Miller:
Speaker:your clients are
Todd Miller:
Speaker:in themselves international
Todd Miller:
Speaker:companies, so they may be doing
Todd Miller:
Speaker:projects in different countries
Todd Miller:
Speaker:and so forth. So, you know, you're
Todd Miller:
Speaker:able to help them set their
Todd Miller:
Speaker:standards and then also make sure
Todd Miller:
Speaker:that they are meeting anything
Todd Miller:
Speaker:local that might be special as well.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:And I kind of understand that,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:correct?
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Yes.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Okay.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Yes, 100%.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And as I said, you can bring
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:in local knowledge wherever you need
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:it. And it's not, it shouldn't.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Yeah, it's not a drama
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:bush like anybody that's
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:listened to the podcast.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:If you don't have a
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:proper planning schedule
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:in place before you start the
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:project. And we've all been there
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:where we started the project and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:we're two months in and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:next thing there's fighting going on
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:because guys are jockeying for
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:position or, you know,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:there's a, a sort of a conflict
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:starting to arise between
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:people trying to
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:do the right thing, but popping,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:coming up with barriers.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And so most of that stems from
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:the preplan process, where people
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:just didn't get together in a
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:workshop style and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:mantra and said, Okay.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:What do we want to get out of this
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:project as a team, as contractors,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:as as individuals?
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And sort of create those goals
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and those aspirations and say,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:That's the strategic vision for this
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:project.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Are we all agreed we're going to
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:follow that?
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Unfortunately, that doesn't happen
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:quite often as you think.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And we still see it today where,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:you know, it's too late
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:by the time you're in the project
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:because people are too focused on
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:trying to deliver the projects and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:they're in the projects, you can't
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:put on the handbrake at that stage
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and you've just got to let it go and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:try and catch up.
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:You surprised me earlier,
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:Gavin, when you said that those
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:American companies coming into
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:Ireland were the ones that brought
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:this idea of the for
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:health, for a full-time health and
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:safety officer, which
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:may not be what most would guess
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:from those cutthroat capitalist
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:Americans, you know, being the
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:the ones that originated that.
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:So curious, making
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:sure I heard that right.
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:But then also getting your
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:perspective on, you know, what
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:countries are sort of leading the
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:way in some of these guidelines and
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:are there some countries that might
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:be lagging a little bit in that
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:regard?
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:I don't know if that could back
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:up the whole cutthroat capitalist
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:comment, because
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:that might get me in trouble.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:But I get no, I know what you mean.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And I look
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:at there's Canada
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:has got a great reputation in
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:terms of health and safety.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And people might say that they're
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:overboard.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:It's not a nanny state.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:That's a different conversation for
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:different topics and social,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:political and more so than safety.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And Australia
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:has a good strong sense,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and I like the Swedish model
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:personally myself in terms of health
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and safety, because I remember
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:going into to a wind project
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and it
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:was a test Islands.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:The whole island was actually just a
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:test island for wind turbines
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and reading the safety
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:framework documents for Sweden.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And it was like, it was like a
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:couple of pages wasn't corporate
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:pages, but it was like a person's
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:or a legal framework
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:so small I couldn't get over.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:I was like, Wow.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Like, that's how it makes sense
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:in terms of like, why
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:would you just fill a whole book
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:of legal jargon
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and show it to people and say, here,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and, you know, we need you to follow
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:the legislation like it's
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:a minefield?
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:You know, there's so many different
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:areas that you can get on.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And they just brought it down
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:a small bit on the flip side
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:of things, their social welfare
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and their employee welfare
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:programs are kind of like
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:a disadvantage to
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:the cartoonists because
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:there's restrictions on hours,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:sticks and sometimes holiday
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:periods and pensions.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And what you have to pay these
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:people and stuff like that.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And so that has a sort of a
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:negative
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:impact on progression
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:because I see how
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:things can get done
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and it's a pity that
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:we don't have more of a
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:freestyle open-market
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:approach to if people
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:can do the job on their feet
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:from what they're doing.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And you can control the risk and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:you can demonstrate that, but then
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:leave them alone. Let them get on
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:with the job.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And this creates
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:people and companies that are
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:managed in such a way that
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:their reputation travels with them.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And that's where
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:we, for myself, had
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:set up
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:gavin-coyle.com and wrote the
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:book on workplace safety
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and budgets because we
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:felt and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:there was a whole business of safety
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and model that was missing from
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:the boardrooms.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And in terms of
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:making safety a profit center
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:for your business as opposed
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:to a regulatory compliance
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:center, which is what people
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:think about today.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:So what we're talking about is
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:how can you look at your business
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:from a safety perspective
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and make it more efficient from a
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:safety perspective, which obviously
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:raised safety standards,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:but also creates a situation where
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:you stop spending money on certain
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:things that have nothing to do
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:with the efficiency of your business
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and with the bottom line.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And so how do we talk and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:how do we get a better return
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:on investment for each pound you
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:spend on safety?
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And what does that look like?
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And so you create a whole profit
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:center mindset from
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:the boardroom right down to the
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:grassroots, and then
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:you can repurpose that that dollar
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:value safe and back into
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:better staff because you pay them
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:better wages, better equipment
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:because you couldn't buy that
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:equipment previously.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:So now it's repurposed and it's
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:safer equipment and it's more
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:innovative and it's more creative
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and it's more it's producing more
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and better programs
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:for the business and more bonuses
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:for the people that are delivering
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:on all the aspects of
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:of a profit center
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:within your within your business.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And that this is a a major
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:talking point for me at the moment
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:because it's a taboo
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:subject to say, I want
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:you to cut your costs on safety.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And you know, nobody wants
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:to say that because something goes
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:wrong. The fingers point.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:You're the man that says,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:you know, we should all reduce
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:the cost and safety.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:I'm saying that.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And in an open way
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:over my 20 years experience, people
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:are spending a humongous amount of
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:money on on safety in different
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:areas that have absolutely no
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:drop down in terms of the
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:sustainability of the business.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And I, I
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:have seen situations
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:like the smaller contractors listen
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:to the podcast where if you can
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:raise the profile of your business
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:from a safety perspective and have
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:a reputation for a very safe
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:business, you will win more
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:work guaranteed.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:It might take a while, might take a
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:year or two to sort of create
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:that sort of reputation.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:But clients, in my experience
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:on weekdays with major clients,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:will actually go for a small
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:contractor if they can raise
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:the bar on safety, ensure that they
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:have a sustainable model that's
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:on a plan for the future of health
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and safety and all of the people
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:around their business buys into it
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and that takes
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:time. But to
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:clients and to
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:my estates will pay
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:the extra bit of money if they
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:know they have a safe company
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:that also can deliver quality.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Yeah, I think that's really
Todd Miller:
Speaker:interesting and it kind of goes down
Todd Miller:
Speaker:a line of something I want to ask
Todd Miller:
Speaker:you, Gavin, because, you know,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:I hear you talking a lot.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:We're talking about international
Todd Miller:
Speaker:businesses and boardrooms,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:and I'm thinking a lot of
Todd Miller:
Speaker:contractors are much smaller than
Todd Miller:
Speaker:that and don't have all of that.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:But yet, you know, you're
Todd Miller:
Speaker:giving them a framework of saying,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Hey, if you start everything
Todd Miller:
Speaker:with safety in mind and
Todd Miller:
Speaker:then make that a hallmark of
Todd Miller:
Speaker:your company and actually be can
Todd Miller:
Speaker:become a, you know, a great
Todd Miller:
Speaker:marketing tool for you as well.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Let's talk a little bit about your
Todd Miller:
Speaker:book, Workplace Safety on a Budget,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:which I looked it up.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:You can get it on Amazon, so
Todd Miller:
Speaker:I haven't bought it yet, but I
Todd Miller:
Speaker:encourage everybody to check it out.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:But so is that book
Todd Miller:
Speaker:applicable for anyone
Todd Miller:
Speaker:with any size of a contracting
Todd Miller:
Speaker:business?
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:It's 100%, Todd.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And one of the main drivers
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:for me writing the book was
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:I felt that I wasn't getting
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:access to the middle market
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and to the small scale
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:markets within construction
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and contracting in general.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And I felt sort of
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:an obligation, but because
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:of our business was with premium
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:clients. Other people are
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:premium level in terms of
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:cost base.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:We couldn't give that advice.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:We couldn't support small
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:to medium enterprises because
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:we had niched ourselves into this
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:premium market.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:So it was something that was known
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:to me for a long time.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:As it gets, you know, we're not I'm
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:not really giving back anything to
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:the guys that actually are
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:as good as anyone.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:But they decided to go out on their
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:own and they might only be one man
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:in a van or they might be,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:you know, somebody with 20
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:contractors. So how do I get
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:it? How do I make a difference
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:on that? So the website
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:that we have is
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:under construction for the last two
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:years. It's constantly putting in
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:free safety courses
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and then just paid
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:certified courses that
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:I deliver and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:that are like $29.99
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:per person.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Free toolkits,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:as much free advice as we can give
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:people.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And the book is like $12
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:on Amazon.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:So again, it's not; I'm not
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:going to be
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:going to Monaco any time soon.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:It's safety
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:information should be shared and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:should be out there for everybody.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:It shouldn't be a guarded secret.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And the book covers every
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:part of every business,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:regardless whether you're in
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:construction or not.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:It can be any workplace, and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:whether you're somebody that's
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:starting out in health and safety as
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:a graduation, you want to or
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:you're thinking about starting out
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:in safety, it's for you.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:If you're a seasoned professional
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and you want to understand how to
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:put a different model in place
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:to create more profit
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:for you to spend money on order
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:things and safety, it's for you.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:If you're an employer and you just
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:want to navigate through health and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:safety and understand what are the
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:hacks, if you like,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:of reducing my cost and safety,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:but still making a big impression
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:to win, to win over clients.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:That's the purpose of the book and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:that's what we termed the business
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:of safety.
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:Very interesting.
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:And I know you mentioned earlier
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:taking this 1 to 2 year kind of
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:perspective on starting to build
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:this culture in your business and
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:building systems.
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:But I'm curious, when you work with
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:a new client, what, are there
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:any, do
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:there seem to be any consistent
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:first steps or low-hanging
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:fruit that, you know, first
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:recommendations you find yourself
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:giving pretty regularly?
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Yeah, great question Seth,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and it's actually turning
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:into a program.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:So we
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:were doing it naturally
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:ourselves without actually having
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:a specific model
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:program,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:but we
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:were breaking down at the moment.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:We're actually that's going to go
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:live in the next couple of months as
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:a program.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:We're just trying to figure out the
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:monetary value of that
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:for small to medium
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:companies. And then if there's large
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:companies to come in because we've
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:done it for the larger companies.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And I'll give you a classic
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:example where,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:to give a simple
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:answer for your question is we would
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:do a gap analysis at discovery
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:stage process initially
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:to understand the logic of the
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:business and how the business
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:operates in the structure and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:what's happened.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And in this specific case, it's like
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:a $50 million
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:turnover business, pretty strong
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:business and utilities.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:But when we got into and started
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:speaking to the workers, which was
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:over a hundred workers, they were
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:all working in an
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:underground situations,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:but they were actually employed as
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:overhead linesmen.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:So this should have been up on a
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:poll that they were down in the
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:hole. And what
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:happened was they
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:had one big major client
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:contracts, the company
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:had.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And they told the guys, look,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:big news. We've got loads of work
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:for the next 20 years where you're
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:going to have to go into the holes
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and sort of do this kind of civils
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:type work.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And so all the guys did is because
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:obviously they see the families and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:mortgages and the money was still
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:good.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:But when I spoke to them, they were
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:like, we were never employed to do
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:this kind of.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:You know, this is not us.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:So we went back to the
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:contractor and we said, look,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:we think there's a great opportunity
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:here, that there is
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:companies out there that
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:specifically of that task.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:You've now got a load of data built
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:up in your business, how much time
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:it takes, what type of person you
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:need. It wasn't a competency-based
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:task, so they weren't
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:being slanting the rules
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:of safety in terms of putting
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:incompetent people into a competent
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:situation. Wasn't was manual
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:type task but still
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:they'd done this. And
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:so they had all this information and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:then we said, let's go to tender
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:now. So we help them with the tender
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:process and we have to select
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:a contractor who specifically,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:that's all they done.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And they knew exactly the dollar
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:value, how much that was worth than
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:in terms of savings.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:So now our people are able to hold,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:they become more productive because
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:now you have more capacity to take
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:on more work, because now your real
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:people, your direct staff, has
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:had time to do other things
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and you had a company that was just
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:focused on those difficult tasks
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:that these guys were doing anyway.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And you knew the margins and you
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:knew what you were making and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:still have a kind of
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:a wry smile with that company
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:because they've made over a billion
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:in terms of savings and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:they've gone on to bigger things as
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:a company.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And it's just again, it's just
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:another way of companies
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:to say, stop.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:What are you actually doing and what
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:is your specialty or what are you
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:what is your focus and where do you
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:want to be and what type of an
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:organization do you want to be known
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:for?
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And sometimes we get distracted
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:or pulled into areas we don't
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:belong.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And safety has an impact
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:on that because people are
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:demotivated.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:They weren't happy in the end, the
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:job they were in and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:they were just going through the motions.
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:Yeah. And that opportunity was
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:identified by
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:talking to your people.
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:And so there's a good leadership
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:principle there too, of maybe that's
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:a good place to start.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Another classic example, just,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:just to add to that is, when
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:we interview people and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:which we do as part of the process,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:we find that there's a disparity
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:of information being given
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:back to us by the people.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And it's done in a confidential
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:manner so people can speak
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:openly and freely.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:But what we're really thinking about
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:on the call is and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:with that, with that person, with
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:the manager, whoever it is guy on
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:the shop floor.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:If there's an accident, that person
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:is going to say the exact same thing
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:to the health and safety inspector
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:that has to prosecute
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:your company.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And, you know, somebody is going are
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:saying exactly how they see
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:it and it's not really good.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:In some cases they're saying, you
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:know what, we now we break
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:the process on such and such.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:We know we don't really follow
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:through on that safety procedure.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:You know, our my manager
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:doesn't really care about safety and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:stuff like that.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:So if he's going to say to me, he's
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:going to say to our health and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:safety inspector who's prosecuting
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:maybe an accident.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:So we need to know if people
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:we need to have a forum that people
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:can express their views and be open
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:about that.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:They shouldn't have, obviously have
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:to be reprimanded
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:in any way, shape or form.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:But we need to be open to better
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:conversations and so that
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:the trust can be built in such a way
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:that it's open and transparent for
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:the whole business.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And, you know,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:that's an area that people kind of
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:shy away from as well, that they
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:don't really want exactly what you
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:just said, their set.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:They don't really set sides, the
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:questions to be asked and people
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:in such a way that's, you know,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:well, okay, if you feel that's
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:a problem, let's address the
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:problem. Let's have an open forum
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and let's talk about.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Now, if you don't follow through,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:you know, you're back to your
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:culture question and you're back to
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:it's not just safety that's going to
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:be affected. Everybody's job is
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:going to be affected now, if we
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:have this type of environment going
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:on.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Very interesting.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:And I think that's you know, when
Todd Miller:
Speaker:you talk about transparency and
Todd Miller:
Speaker:openness, I think a lot of companies
Todd Miller:
Speaker:do struggle with that when it comes
Todd Miller:
Speaker:to these important things.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Everyone kind of wonders, well,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:who's listening to this and who's
Todd Miller:
Speaker:watching me?
Todd Miller:
Speaker:And, you know, who am I really
Todd Miller:
Speaker:saying this to?
Todd Miller:
Speaker:And so I love that you,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:as a company, as a consultant,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:can bring that kind of
Todd Miller:
Speaker:openness out of people.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:That's great.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Kind of backing up a little bit, I'm
Todd Miller:
Speaker:still kind of thinking
Todd Miller:
Speaker:a lot about this concept
Todd Miller:
Speaker:of businesses using
Todd Miller:
Speaker:their safety record as,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:you know, as something they promote
Todd Miller:
Speaker:to prospective clients.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:I don't see that happen very much.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:I mean, are there any companies
Todd Miller:
Speaker:you've seen who are really good at
Todd Miller:
Speaker:that or any tools,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:you know, for for being good at
Todd Miller:
Speaker:that?
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:I forgot I was going to say Boeing,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:but I...
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Yeah, I.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:I don't think,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:but doesn't it go to show you know,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:without going into specifics,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:where was the open and transparent
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:discussion around that whole
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:scenario?
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Right.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And, you know,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:a company with massive resources
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:in terms of safety
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and in general, but still
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:want to. And so what
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:does that tell you?
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:It doesn't matter what the size of
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:the company is, that same
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:environment or culture can be
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:transferred into a small company.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And if you're a small business
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:owner, listen to the podcast.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:You know, just because it's phone or
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:just because it's whoever-sized
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:company. The same
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:challenges are in everybody's
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:business.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:It's just different scale.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And at the end of the day, a
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:fatality is a fatality.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:It's
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:a person, it's a family.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And it's massive collateral damage
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:that comes out of that and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:every company that we've dealt with
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:honors their own challenges.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And there's nobody you can say to
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:have changed the health department,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:their you know,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:their and their leader,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:if you like, in terms of health and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:safety.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:But,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:as you said, Todd, how do they
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:promote and sets and in
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:terms of how do they get their
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:message out there, a safe company?
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Like, where is it that
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:there is an implied
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and sort of mantra
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:within the client to say,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:You know, I don't, I just know this
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:company's safe anyway, because I
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:know their reputation.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:I know that they're safe.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:They don't even have to really
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:challenge it so much because
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:they just know that when you're
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:talking to really good, competent
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:people, you know, to take on, it's a
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:never for you. And fortunately,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:especially in the contracting game
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and the dilution
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:of people's
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:process as you go down, the food
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:chain gets worse and worse
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and therefore the output gets worse
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and worse.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And so we see people going bankrupt.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:We see accidents happening, and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:you see things that are happening
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:that shouldn't be happening.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And so we go back to transparency.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:There isn't a transparent process
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:per se in how we
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:award contracts, how we
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:secure contracts, and how
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:we have an open, honest discussion
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:about there's enough in the pot
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:for everybody here.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:So why don't we come together as
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:a collective team of contractors
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and we say to clients, Look,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:we're actually more unified than you
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:think we are.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:We have a common purpose.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:We have a common goal.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:We all want to make money, and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:we don't want to sort of have to
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:go down the sparring route of
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:subcontracting our work to
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:another subcontractor that's going
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:to subcontract out again and again
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and again.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And next thing it breaks and we all
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:go, We didn't even
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:know this company existed.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:We thought we gave this contract to
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:X Carptentry services or whatever
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:else. Like just if we want
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:to talk about start
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:correcting the situations
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:within the system.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:The procurement system has major
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:challenges in their experience.
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:Todd, hearing him talk, I'm thinking
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:about the times that we've both had
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:being in the house with, you know,
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:one of our dealers selling a roof
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:and either the husband or the wife
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:making the comment that they
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:want to go on vacation when the roof
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:is being installed because it's
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:going to stress them out too much.
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:Seeing the guys walk up all around
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:the roof are worried something's
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:going to happen. And definitely
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:the companies that have a clear
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:process and a system
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:in place and give a clear answer
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:about how they're going to keep
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:their people safe as well as the
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:property safe during during
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:it are going to have a clear
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:advantage versus those that
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:can't say much then, other than I
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:have no idea what the sub is going
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:to do when he's up there.
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:So, yeah,
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:you know, knowing what your plan is
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:to keep people safe is, you know, a
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:clear advantage in those cases.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:I always think it's interesting
Todd Miller:
Speaker:whenever you know, someone is
Todd Miller:
Speaker:looking at buying something or
Todd Miller:
Speaker:contracting out for a service.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:I think they always start with the
Todd Miller:
Speaker:assumption that everything is going
Todd Miller:
Speaker:to go right amongst
Todd Miller:
Speaker:everyone that they're talking to as
Todd Miller:
Speaker:far as possible bidders of
Todd Miller:
Speaker:their project.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:And some companies gradually sort
Todd Miller:
Speaker:of eliminate themselves during
Todd Miller:
Speaker:that bidding process where they
Todd Miller:
Speaker:start to realize, oh,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:things may not go quite so right
Todd Miller:
Speaker:with this company, and
Todd Miller:
Speaker:yet the cream always rises to the
Todd Miller:
Speaker:top, hopefully.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Now we all know
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:that there's, you know,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:plenty of tenders go out and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:then
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:people don't really think about
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:their capacity.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And the
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:next thing, there's a contractor
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:comes in, we want that contract and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:everybody's looking at it.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:We actually want that contract and,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:you know, oh shit, like, sorry for
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:the language, but where are we going
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:to get the people to deliver it?
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Right.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Okay, well look,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:we'll spam the next thing and in a
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:lot of cases that there should be
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:some sort of a lead-in period where
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:there's a cooling off period,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:we talk about cooling off and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:contracts.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:There should be a cooling off period
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:for for contractors to allow
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:them to get up to speed
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:with regards to what the
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:requirements are for projects.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Because, you know,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:a lot of people don't ask the
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:question, have you got the capacity
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:to deliver this and how many other
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:tenders have you got that are
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:out there that are live at the
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:moment?
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And what sort of resources do you
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:have around that that actually
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:might affect the the chances
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:of you not turning up on
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:a Monday or turning
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:up on a Friday and telling me you
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:can't do a job anymore?
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Well, Gavin, this has been very
Todd Miller:
Speaker:interesting.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:And, you know, I really do encourage
Todd Miller:
Speaker:everyone to check out your book,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Workplace Safety on a Budget.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Also, of course,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:gavincoyle.com and looking up the
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Coyle Group. But is there anything
Todd Miller:
Speaker:that we haven't covered today that
Todd Miller:
Speaker:you'd like to share with our
Todd Miller:
Speaker:audience?
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:That I just want everybody to
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:embrace
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:health and safety as a tool of
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:your business that's going to make
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:your money. And it's actually going
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:to improve the quality and the
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:standard of your work and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:that, you know, you will attract
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:really good people to your business
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:if you have a reputation for safety.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Wow, we haven't even touched on that
Todd Miller:
Speaker:yet. But you're yeah, that makes
Todd Miller:
Speaker:every bit of sense.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:So I love your model here
Todd Miller:
Speaker:of just helping businesses look at
Todd Miller:
Speaker:safety as a way to
Todd Miller:
Speaker:grow themselves to to
Todd Miller:
Speaker:profitability and and
Todd Miller:
Speaker:other levels of success
Todd Miller:
Speaker:rather than the sort of necessary
Todd Miller:
Speaker:evil that, oh, I got to do this to
Todd Miller:
Speaker:meet regulatory requirements or
Todd Miller:
Speaker:something.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Yeah, trying to make it more positive.
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:Right, and it shouldn't be taboo.
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:And it just it
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:makes so much sense because
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:it's an individual kind of a single
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:perspective that everyone can get
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:behind in the organization,
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:regardless of how many degrees you
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:are removed from the hazard
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:itself. So it makes total
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:sense.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Very good. Well, I have to ask
Todd Miller:
Speaker:you, Gavin, before we close out this
Todd Miller:
Speaker:episode, if you're
Todd Miller:
Speaker:willing to participate in something
Todd Miller:
Speaker:we call our rapid fire questions.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:So this is where we have a little
Todd Miller:
Speaker:fun at the end of most episodes,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:and we will ask you seven
Todd Miller:
Speaker:questions that may be serious,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:may be silly.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:All you have to do is give an
Todd Miller:
Speaker:answer, and
Todd Miller:
Speaker:everyone needs to understand that
Todd Miller:
Speaker:you, Gavin, has absolutely no idea
Todd Miller:
Speaker:what we're about to ask.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:So are you up to the
Todd Miller:
Speaker:challenge of rapid fire?
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Yeah, my wifi is a little bit
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:unsteady at the moment Todd, so just
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:in case it drops out, you know.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Honestly, it's not a scary process.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Hello, Todd? Hello, Todd?
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Well, let's go.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:We will alternate asking.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Seth, you want to start out?
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:Sure.
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:So rapid fire question number one,
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:what product have you bought in
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:recent memory that has been a
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:disruptor or game changer
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:for you?
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Yeah, I have to say I had a
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Microsoft laptop and I thought
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Microsoft was doing,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:you know, the Microsoft Surface.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:I thought it was phenomenal.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:I thought this was definitely going
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:to trump the Apple
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:because I'd always been Apple.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And I had a heartbreak with that
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Microsoft. I never want to see
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Microsoft ever again.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:I absolutely love Apple.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And I'm not being paid by Apple, by
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:the way. It was like and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:I don't want to get into a lawsuit
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:here. I'm not going to discuss the
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:issues. But brand new laptop
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:shouldn't be doing some of the stuff
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:my laptop was.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:But the Apple is working perfectly
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:well.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:All four of us involved with the
Todd Miller:
Speaker:show here today are Apple folks.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:So you're in
Todd Miller:
Speaker:a friendly audience there.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:So question number two,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:what part of a business
Todd Miller:
Speaker:do you think absolutely must
Todd Miller:
Speaker:be gotten right?
Todd Miller:
Speaker:In other words, if a business can't
Todd Miller:
Speaker:get this right, there's no
Todd Miller:
Speaker:point in even attempting anything
Todd Miller:
Speaker:else.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:This may be a softball question for
Todd Miller:
Speaker:you, or maybe it's a little bit
Todd Miller:
Speaker:harder. I don't know.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Yeah.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:At the end of the day, if
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:we spoke about it earlier,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:if your
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:culture and your systems and your
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:processes doesn't match up, go home.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:It's not worth it.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:You're in total disarray,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:you're in chaos, you're in negative
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:territory and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:you don't know what to do.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:And that might sound harsh,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:but like, if you want a rain check
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and if you haven't got the strength
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:or if you can't bring people around
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:you that can give you the strength
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and the confidence to deliver,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:though, in those areas.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:You're going to be a failure.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:That's a good answer. Very good.
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:Absolutely. Question number three, What
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:would you like to be remembered for?
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:I was thinking of some events on
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Saturday night, but that's not going
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:to
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:happen.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:I don't think that's going to.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:I'd like to be able to
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:for people to say that
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:I done me best in health and safety
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:to deliver safety for people
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:at all levels, regardless of who
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:or where they are in the world
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:of what size a company they work
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:for or what age they are or
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:race or anything or whatever.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:It's just, you know, at the end of
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:the day, everybody
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:deserves safety.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Good stuff, So our first three
Todd Miller:
Speaker:questions were a little heavier.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:The next four are actually a little
Todd Miller:
Speaker:more lighthearted, just so you know.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Okay.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Question number four.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:If you had to eat a crayon,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:what color of crayon would you
Todd Miller:
Speaker:choose?
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:I can't. That's
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:not safe.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:That's not a safe question to ask anybody.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:I figured that would come up.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Oh,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:my God. Next question please.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Who asks the safety person
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:that question? I remember you,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:you're the crayon man.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Safety guy told everybody he eats crayons
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:there.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:I'm sorry, I can't go there.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:That's actually, that's
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:a planted question, Todd.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:I have to say, when you
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:roll that one in very nicely to see
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and test me.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Moving on, moving on.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:We will move on. I'm not sure what your reaction
Todd Miller:
Speaker:will be to this next one, though.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Whoa.
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:So the next one, you're
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:trying to survive a zombie
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:apocalypse.
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:What one person do you definitely
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:want on your team?
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Oh, Elon Musk.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:All day, every day.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:He's got the assets, he's got the resources.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:He's got the spaceship to get us out
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:of there.
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:There you go. Good answer.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:I like it.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Okay, next to last question.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Are you a morning person or a night
Todd Miller:
Speaker:owl?
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Good question.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:I would suggest I'd be a night owl.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:I was more of a night owl when I was
Todd Miller:
Speaker:younger. But as I get older, I'm a
Todd Miller:
Speaker:morning person.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:I conk out about 9:00 at night.
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:Alright. Last rapid fire question.
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:Would you prefer to have to wear
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:bellbottom pants or have
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:your hair styled in a mohawk?
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Oh, my God. Well, look at that.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Have you seen my hair?
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Well, I'm
Todd Miller:
Speaker:right there with you.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Or what's left of it. I'd go with the Mohawk
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:because it kind of has an aspiration
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:that I do have hair.
Seth Heckaman:
Speaker:There you go.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Love it, good answer.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:This has been a real pleasure and
Todd Miller:
Speaker:very eye-opening to learn about your
Todd Miller:
Speaker:business.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:So, again, if you could remind
Todd Miller:
Speaker:us for folks who want to get in
Todd Miller:
Speaker:touch with you or follow what you're
Todd Miller:
Speaker:doing, what are the best ways
Todd Miller:
Speaker:for them to do that?
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:So I'm on LinkedIn,
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:always happy to connect with people
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:on LinkedIn and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:the book is on Amazon.com.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Workplace Safety on a Budget and
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:gavin-coyle.com is the website
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:with the book and with free courses
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and the free resources and all that
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:good stuff. So read it and encourage
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:people to go to that website
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and, and either way you'll get
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:me through those channels.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Even though
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:we have Coyle group on socials, I
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:would suggest go to gavin-coyle.com
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:and you still got me anyway.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Great.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Well, and we will put all those in
Todd Miller:
Speaker:the show notes as well.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:But we do encourage folks to
Todd Miller:
Speaker:check you out further as well.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:And just some great concepts
Todd Miller:
Speaker:here about safety that
Todd Miller:
Speaker:I think are really disruptive for
Todd Miller:
Speaker:contracting businesses.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:So I sure hope people check
Todd Miller:
Speaker:it out. So thank you again,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Gavin, for being here today.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:It's been a real pleasure.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Hundred percent correct.
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:Had a great time and thank you very
Gavin Coyle:
Speaker:much for having me, guys.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:And I will also thank our audience
Todd Miller:
Speaker:for tuning into this episode of
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Construction Disruption with Gavin
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Coyle of Coyle Group,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:and he is also the Safety CEO.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:So please watch for future episodes
Todd Miller:
Speaker:of our podcast.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:We're always blessed with great
Todd Miller:
Speaker:guests.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Don't forget to leave a review
Todd Miller:
Speaker:please, on Apple Podcasts or
Todd Miller:
Speaker:YouTube. Until the next time
Todd Miller:
Speaker:we're together, though, I encourage
Todd Miller:
Speaker:everyone keep on disrupting,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:keep on doing things different from
Todd Miller:
Speaker:everybody else.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:And also don't forget to have a
Todd Miller:
Speaker:positive impact on everyone you
Todd Miller:
Speaker:encounter. Make them smile,
Todd Miller:
Speaker:encourage them.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Simple yet powerful things we can
Todd Miller:
Speaker:all do to change the world for
Todd Miller:
Speaker:someone.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:So God bless and take care.
Todd Miller:
Speaker:This is Isaiah Industries signing
Todd Miller:
Speaker:off until the next episode of
Todd Miller:
Speaker:Construction Disruption.
Intro/Outro:
Speaker:This podcast is produced by Isaiah
Intro/Outro:
Speaker:Industries, manufacturer
Intro/Outro:
Speaker:of specialty metal roofing and other
Intro/Outro:
Speaker:Intro/Outro: building products.
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