In this episode of the Construction Disruption podcast, Todd Miller of Isaiah Industries welcomes Derek Hodgin, a professional engineer and founder of Positive Friction Consulting. Derek returns to discuss the evolution of his career, his new book 'More than 100 Ways to Build Better: A Contractor’s Field Guide to Better Practices', and the importance of building durability in construction.
Listeners will gain insights into forensic engineering, failure analysis, and practical construction tips designed to keep contractors out of litigation. With Derek's wealth of knowledge and field experience, this episode serves as a valuable resource for both newcomers and seasoned veterans in the AEC industry.
Timestamps
00:00 Introduction and a Quick Story
00:46 Welcoming the Guest: Derek Hodgin
02:27 Derek's Career and Recent Changes
03:53 The Book: More than 100 Ways to Build Better
09:28 Field Guide Design and Usage
18:19 Advice for Young Professionals
32:22 Rapid Fire Questions
36:04 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Connect with Derek Online
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/derek-hodgin-p-e-rbec-ccca-f-iibec-57b88241/
Website: https://www.positivefrictionconsulting.com/
Email: positivefrictionllc@gmail.com
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Connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, or LinkedIn
This episode was produced by Isaiah Industries, Inc.
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I'm Todd Miller of Isaiah Industries, manufacturer
Todd Miller:of specialty metal roofing and other building materials.
Todd Miller:Welcome to another episode of Construction Disruption.
Todd Miller:So I'm going to tell you a quick story to start out with.
Todd Miller:Um, little Johnny was in Sunday school class and his teacher in Sunday school was
Todd Miller:telling them about the story of creation and of course included in that was telling
Todd Miller:about the story of how, uh, Eve was, uh, created from, from one of Adam's ribs.
Todd Miller:And Johnny just said, to it real intently.
Todd Miller:Um, so later in the week, Johnny's at home and, um, his mom finds him.
Todd Miller:He's laying on his bed and he's kind of moaning and he's grabbing his side.
Todd Miller:And, um, she asked Johnny, what's, what's wrong?
Todd Miller:Or don't you feel well?
Todd Miller:And he says, Oh mom, I think I'm having a wife.
Todd Miller:Okay, well, let's go ahead and get started with our show.
Todd Miller:So today I'm excited.
Todd Miller:We do have a repeat guest today.
Todd Miller:Um, it's hard to believe, but we're coming up on nearly four years since the
Todd Miller:first time that this gentleman joined us here on Construction Disruption.
Todd Miller:Uh, Derek Hodgin is our guest today.
Todd Miller:Derek is a professional engineer based in South Carolina, and he
Todd Miller:currently is the owner and founder of Positive Friction Consulting.
Todd Miller:Over his career, Derek has worked a lot with forensic engineering, failure
Todd Miller:analysis, facility condition inspections.
Todd Miller:He's frequently served and worked as an expert witness on various types of
Todd Miller:construction failures, and he's been a frequent presenter to the AEC industry.
Todd Miller:And since the last time we spoke, Derek's had a lot of changes in his life.
Todd Miller:He's gone on to new stages, and one of those includes his, um, Recent
Todd Miller:publication of his book, more than 100 ways to build better a contractor's
Todd Miller:field guide to better practices.
Todd Miller:Um, Derek, it was a blast having you on the show several years ago.
Todd Miller:I'm looking forward to today's conversation as well.
Todd Miller:Um, just to remind our audience, we are doing our challenge words.
Todd Miller:So each one of us has been challenged to work some sort of unique.
Todd Miller:Word or phrase into the conversation.
Todd Miller:And at the end of the show, we'll tell you our audience, whether we were
Todd Miller:successful working in those words or not.
Todd Miller:So Derek, um, welcome back to construction disruption.
Derek Hodgin:Thanks, I appreciate you having me back.
Todd Miller:Well, it's good.
Todd Miller:You were a great guest and you and I have known each other a lot of years
Todd Miller:and I always enjoy talking to you and it's always very informative, but,
Todd Miller:um, I think it's interesting your life has taken on some changes since.
Todd Miller:Uh, the last time you were on the show, um, you tell me you're retired,
Todd Miller:but then you also tell me all the projects you're still involved with.
Todd Miller:And it doesn't sound very retired to me, but, um, tell
Todd Miller:us about some of those changes.
Derek Hodgin:Well, I guess, um, the term retirement, I mean, from
Derek Hodgin:a forensic engineering standpoint, uh, just means I stopped accepting
Derek Hodgin:new cases, um, in October of 2023, which was actually the 20 year.
Derek Hodgin:Anniversary of our company, uh, construction science and engineering.
Derek Hodgin:So I got to retire from the company that I created, and I have a finite list of
Derek Hodgin:projects that I'm still consulting on.
Derek Hodgin:Um, when you're retained as an expert witness, you're retained as
Derek Hodgin:an individual, not as a company.
Derek Hodgin:So I still have numerous cases that I'm named as the expert where I'll serve those
Derek Hodgin:clients until these cases are resolved.
Derek Hodgin:But when I, when I stopped taking cases, I had over 100 on the books,
Derek Hodgin:and now I have, I think, less than 30.
Derek Hodgin:So it's, uh, I'm working toward the, uh, having nothing on my
Derek Hodgin:plate, but it's a slow process.
Todd Miller:I have to imagine some of those cases can go on
Todd Miller:for years, especially if it's a bigger project or something.
Todd Miller:Is that true?
Derek Hodgin:Yeah, absolutely.
Derek Hodgin:Yeah.
Derek Hodgin:Some of the, uh, cases I'm involved with are very large cases that
Derek Hodgin:will take at least another year.
Derek Hodgin:So I imagine,
Todd Miller:So in your spare time, you've written this book, which
Todd Miller:I just think is extremely cool.
Todd Miller:Um, I just got a copy of it yesterday and I've started going through it.
Todd Miller:There is so much valuable content in here, um, especially for someone
Todd Miller:in the construction industry.
Todd Miller:Um, as you describe it, the purpose of the book is to equip contractors with more or
Todd Miller:less a quick reference guide to the do's and don'ts of construction that you have
Todd Miller:learned over your 30 or so year career.
Todd Miller:Um, you have topics in there like bidding projects, site work and drainage,
Todd Miller:foundations, walls, roofs, windows, cladding, decks, all kinds of things.
Todd Miller:Um, I think you've really created something special here that brings
Todd Miller:together years of field experience.
Todd Miller:Uh, and to me, it's valuable both to new members, just invaluable
Todd Miller:to new members to our industry.
Todd Miller:Um, but there's a lot of good stuff in here for.
Todd Miller:Grizzled veterans as well.
Todd Miller:So tell us a little bit about what your goal was with the book.
Derek Hodgin:well, I remember when I first had the idea about the book, and I
Derek Hodgin:was standing at a project in Charleston, South Carolina, and I felt like I
Derek Hodgin:just was looking at the same things that I continue to keep looking at.
Derek Hodgin:Over and over and so it just occurred to me that somebody needs to teach
Derek Hodgin:contractors about some basic stuff that they need to get right and
Derek Hodgin:partly to stay out of litigation.
Derek Hodgin:I mean, not just to build a more durable building, but just to stay out
Derek Hodgin:of trouble because there are experts out there that work for owners or
Derek Hodgin:plaintiffs that will find these issues.
Derek Hodgin:Repeated and if they're not careful, you know, end up as a defendant in a lawsuit.
Derek Hodgin:So I felt like that was my 1st kind of thought about the book.
Derek Hodgin:If I could just teach them some of these things that we see so many times
Derek Hodgin:that get people into into litigation, I can help with that process.
Derek Hodgin:But then.
Derek Hodgin:It occurs to me that, as you described, you know, from the foundation up to the
Derek Hodgin:roof and everything in between, there's, there's certain details that we have
Derek Hodgin:trouble sometimes getting, getting right.
Derek Hodgin:And, um, whether it causes litigation or not, it could cause a
Derek Hodgin:durability issue or a safety issue.
Derek Hodgin:And so I, I was naive thinking that, oh, I'm gonna just put this book together and,
Derek Hodgin:you know, it shouldn't be more than a.
Derek Hodgin:You know, a few months or a year process, and I'll get it published and it'll
Derek Hodgin:be, you know, a reasonably priced, you know, inexpensive book that I can get
Derek Hodgin:out there and pass this information on.
Derek Hodgin:And then 8 years later, I crossed the finish line with the, uh, with the book.
Derek Hodgin:And it ended up being much more substantial and just, um, as you described
Derek Hodgin:it, it's a, it's a durable field guide.
Derek Hodgin:Here's a, here's a, here's the finished version of it, but it's made with,
Derek Hodgin:um, 15 mil rigid vinyl, uh, cover and back and then 8 mil vinyl pages.
Derek Hodgin:So you can drop it in the mud puddle.
Derek Hodgin:And you can kick it, and it's, it's, uh, it's very durable to be
Derek Hodgin:used by contractors in the field.
Todd Miller:Well, it's a great looking book No doubt about it.
Todd Miller:Um, you know as you were talking there a second ago You thought made
Todd Miller:me think of something that um, I just came up ran across this morning.
Todd Miller:So My father built our family's home back in the early 70s
Todd Miller:Build up pretty much himself.
Todd Miller:He was working full time and building a home and in the, in the evenings.
Todd Miller:And, um, he was always, of course, this was before the days of YouTube,
Todd Miller:but, uh, dad being an engineer always managed to figure these things out.
Todd Miller:But it was interesting this morning.
Todd Miller:I saw in the news that there was actually a fire in that house.
Todd Miller:Um, my parents haven't lived in it in about.
Todd Miller:20, 25 years.
Todd Miller:Um, and there was a fire in that house that actually originated.
Todd Miller:So one of the things he did in that house that was a little bit
Todd Miller:unique was, um, we had electric, uh, heat in the ceilings with radiant,
Todd Miller:uh, heated cable in the ceilings.
Todd Miller:And it was actually.
Todd Miller:Great heat for the home.
Todd Miller:I mean, of course, it was electric, maybe a little more expensive, but they're
Todd Miller:saying that this fire originated in the attic and apparently had something
Todd Miller:to do with that electric heat cable.
Todd Miller:Of course, here it is 50 years later, but that kind of hit home with me
Todd Miller:thinking, okay, that's that's work.
Todd Miller:My father put in there now.
Todd Miller:I have no idea what may have happened since then.
Todd Miller:Um, you know, obviously there's insulation, there may be critters
Todd Miller:in that attic for all I know.
Todd Miller:Um, but, uh, still kind of, kind of hit home with me.
Todd Miller:These things that we do have ongoing impact, that's for sure.
Derek Hodgin:Well, it's pretty impressive, though, to have a
Derek Hodgin:50 year effective service life.
Derek Hodgin:I mean, to put it in perspective, as a, as a expert witness, most of my cases are
Derek Hodgin:involving homes or buildings that are 8 years old or less because of the statute
Derek Hodgin:of repose in the state of South Carolina.
Derek Hodgin:And so.
Derek Hodgin:I mean, it's just as sad that, um, we don't build things well enough to get
Derek Hodgin:past the 8 year mark before showing signs of distress or non performance.
Todd Miller:Yeah, it really is.
Todd Miller:That is interesting.
Todd Miller:No, and that thought me too.
Todd Miller:I was thinking, gee, whiz, I can't believe it's been 50
Todd Miller:years since we built that house.
Todd Miller:And I say we, I probably was more of an annoyance than a help most of the time.
Todd Miller:But, um, yeah, I mean, that is an awfully good service life as well.
Todd Miller:I agree.
Todd Miller:Um, so.
Todd Miller:The book you've written, like you kind of described and you showed
Todd Miller:us there, it's, it really has been designed as a, in the use field, uh,
Todd Miller:guide and you've got specific topics.
Todd Miller:And I think you do a great job of kind of the end of every section.
Todd Miller:You just stow it down to information as far as things to do, things to not do,
Todd Miller:and things that maybe you could do, but.
Todd Miller:You need to be cautious about it.
Todd Miller:Um, kind of tell us a little bit how you see the book being used.
Todd Miller:I mean, do you, did you write it more for folks who were newer, um, to the
Todd Miller:a EC industry or really for anybody?
Derek Hodgin:I'm hoping it would be useful for everybody.
Derek Hodgin:I mean, even seasoned contractors that have purchased the book and
Derek Hodgin:read it have commented very favorably about, um, you know, some of the
Derek Hodgin:things that are just great reminders.
Derek Hodgin:You know, to them about certain details and things that they are
Derek Hodgin:excited to share with their crews.
Derek Hodgin:And so, um, the intent was to have it in the field.
Derek Hodgin:I'm trying to work right now.
Derek Hodgin:With a tool belt manufacturer to have a pouch.
Derek Hodgin:Made for the book so that you can clip the book on your tool belt and
Derek Hodgin:have it in the field with you and be able to have a quick reference.
Derek Hodgin:Um, but 1 thing that struck me as I was writing the book was
Derek Hodgin:that I don't know as much about.
Derek Hodgin:Contracts, as I know about roofs and early on in my development of the
Derek Hodgin:book, I had this illusion that all the chapters needed to be kind of balanced
Derek Hodgin:and well developed with, you know, the top 10 or something in each chapter.
Derek Hodgin:And then I got over that and realize that.
Derek Hodgin:You know, I, I can give, you know, 6 good things about contracts, you
Derek Hodgin:know, that would be beneficial for contractors, but I could give 20, you
Derek Hodgin:know, or more good ideas about route.
Derek Hodgin:So it doesn't matter, you know, to have this, you know, balance.
Derek Hodgin:I got over that hump and retitled the book just more than 100 ways.
Derek Hodgin:And I ended up having to whittle down at the time from about 140 down
Derek Hodgin:to the current 109 better practices that are in the, in the book.
Derek Hodgin:But I'm hoping it'll be Used in the field by contractors, um, and
Derek Hodgin:just, it would apply to everybody.
Derek Hodgin:It doesn't matter how, uh, if you're a beginner contractor or a
Derek Hodgin:seasoned contractor, I think there's something in there for everybody.
Todd Miller:Sure.
Todd Miller:No, I agree.
Todd Miller:And, and I, you know, as you're talking, I could see this, uh, something
Todd Miller:else for your spare time these days.
Todd Miller:I could see this turning into a podcast, actually, uh, where
Todd Miller:you started to talk about it.
Todd Miller:You know, guys could listen to it in their truck as well and,
Todd Miller:uh, get some education that way.
Todd Miller:So I know you've always been really passionate about working
Todd Miller:with younger folks and, and education and bring them up.
Todd Miller:And so one of your visions of this is also, uh, as this book being used as an
Todd Miller:educational textbook, is that correct?
Todd Miller:Tell us a little bit about that.
Derek Hodgin:Well, pretty quickly, um, after.
Derek Hodgin:Releasing the book from the contractor version, because it's so robust in
Derek Hodgin:its construction, it costs 149, which is, um, you know, a lot more than
Derek Hodgin:I originally thought it would cost.
Derek Hodgin:I had this idea to be like a 30 or 40 dollar book, but after going through
Derek Hodgin:all the materials selection and the, uh, and the actual construction of
Derek Hodgin:the book, um, that's what it ended up.
Derek Hodgin:Costing so obviously some of my, my friends reminded me of how
Derek Hodgin:many books are on my shelf that I love the cost the same or more.
Derek Hodgin:You know, I have an extensive library that's filled with books.
Derek Hodgin:I'm a book junkie myself.
Derek Hodgin:So, um, but I did get a pretty quick response to could we
Derek Hodgin:get the same information?
Derek Hodgin:In a normal book that doesn't cost as much and so right now the publisher
Derek Hodgin:is putting together the textbook version, which is a larger format.
Derek Hodgin:So it would be a little bit easier to read as compact as this field
Derek Hodgin:guide, but it's not going to be something you can drop in a mud puddle.
Derek Hodgin:Uh, you're going to have to keep it on your desk inside, but it will
Derek Hodgin:be 65 dollars instead of the 149.
Derek Hodgin:and I think consultants, manufacturers, Attorneys architects, you know,
Derek Hodgin:that and students, I hope would be able to have the access to the same
Derek Hodgin:information for a much lower cost.
Derek Hodgin:So I feel like universities that have architecture engineering or
Derek Hodgin:construction science programs, maybe.
Derek Hodgin:A great place to, um, to pitch the book and see about getting
Derek Hodgin:in some of those programs.
Derek Hodgin:I think earlier we can get, um, those that are going to enter the construction
Derek Hodgin:field, you know, soon, this type of information that's not taught
Derek Hodgin:anywhere else would be a huge benefit.
Todd Miller:Well, one of the ways I can see it also being used is by
Todd Miller:manufacturers such as ourselves using it as a gift, uh, to people in the field.
Todd Miller:I mean, maybe a Christmas gift or, you know, whatever, just something that,
Todd Miller:uh, you can give folks that's going to be extremely valuable to them.
Todd Miller:Uh, so I'm, I'm kind of excited about that prospect as well.
Derek Hodgin:I've had the same response from a large law
Derek Hodgin:firms that do defense work for
Todd Miller:Oh, wow.
Derek Hodgin:They say, hey, we should probably be giving these to our clients,
Derek Hodgin:you know, so that we can have less.
Derek Hodgin:But of course, I don't want to have them, you know, do everything perfectly.
Derek Hodgin:And then they would not have business.
Todd Miller:I can see both sides of that, sure, but it could be a little proactive
Todd Miller:for some folks, no doubt about it.
Todd Miller:Um, so you were telling me a little bit, and I realize, you know, you've
Todd Miller:designed it really robust and the waterproof pages and everything.
Todd Miller:Uh, you were telling me earlier about, uh, dropkicking it and some of the versions,
Todd Miller:things you were trying to make sure you got this as robust as it could be.
Todd Miller:And I'm guessing that is something most authors don't do.
Todd Miller:Um Tell us a little bit about, you know, what that process was.
Derek Hodgin:well, I guess, I mean, from the outset, because the book
Derek Hodgin:is so much about building better.
Derek Hodgin:I felt it was really, really important that the book follow the same advice.
Derek Hodgin:You know, I can't have a book that talks about durability and have something
Derek Hodgin:that's going to fall apart in the field.
Derek Hodgin:And if it's going to be in the field on a contractor site, it better be.
Derek Hodgin:You know, I won't say indestructible, but it better be tough.
Derek Hodgin:And so I had these iterations where they would give me the book and my thought
Derek Hodgin:early, and I try, I'll try not to get in the weeds too much, but they, I thought
Derek Hodgin:early on coded, uh, metal, like a wire binding would be the most robust, uh,
Derek Hodgin:binding, but if I kicked it enough and dropped it enough, I could get the pages
Derek Hodgin:to become disengaged from the binding.
Derek Hodgin:And so the metal will deform and not hold its shape.
Derek Hodgin:What I like about it is that with the plastic binding, you can open
Derek Hodgin:the pages and fold it completely in half or all the way around to
Derek Hodgin:get on the pages that you want.
Derek Hodgin:Um, and it doesn't, it doesn't deform like the metal.
Derek Hodgin:Now, unfortunately, plastic has a problem when UV with what we
Derek Hodgin:call plasticizer migration and.
Derek Hodgin:Over time, if it's exposed to the sun.
Derek Hodgin:It could lose plasticizer and become brittle.
Derek Hodgin:And so I think that's a benefit of the pouch that would be made
Derek Hodgin:by the tool belt manufacturer.
Derek Hodgin:If a contractor throws this book on his dash, and it gets baked in the sun.
Derek Hodgin:And then he drops it on the concrete.
Derek Hodgin:You could have a crack or a failure of the, of the binding.
Derek Hodgin:So I got to have a, I guess, a manufacturer warning
Derek Hodgin:about the UV protection.
Derek Hodgin:So, um, anyway, um, that's the, that's the idea with it being tough.
Derek Hodgin:We did a lot of research on different materials.
Derek Hodgin:We got the best plastic.
Derek Hodgin:That we could have, you know, for an exterior environment, but, you know,
Derek Hodgin:it's like everything else it'll have a certain effective service life.
Derek Hodgin:Hopefully the longest possible if it's taken care of.
Todd Miller:Well, it certainly sounds like you've thought of
Todd Miller:everything and, and I love it.
Todd Miller:To me, it's, it's, you know, easy to read.
Todd Miller:The print is large and, um, I don't have to put eyedrops in,
Todd Miller:in order to read it or something.
Todd Miller:I mean, I think you've done a.
Todd Miller:Done a really nice job with it.
Todd Miller:And it, and it just has a cool look and feel to it as far as something that a
Todd Miller:contractor would feel comfortable using.
Todd Miller:Um, you know, I think there's a little bit of something that contractors sometimes
Todd Miller:want to be the ones with the answers, not the ones looking for the answers.
Todd Miller:Um, but having this as an actual field guide for them, I think is fantastic.
Todd Miller:Um.
Todd Miller:Anything, I mean, beyond the book, um, any of our listeners out there who maybe
Todd Miller:are younger or newer to this industry, um, any words of advice for them generally
Todd Miller:along their career paths and so forth?
Derek Hodgin:this is still about the book, but, um, the 1 thing I
Derek Hodgin:tried to include, I'll tell you that.
Derek Hodgin:Part that was difficult for me, Todd was writing the book, but not teaching about,
Derek Hodgin:uh, the, all these issues because I was trying to write to the contractors and
Derek Hodgin:tell them what to do and what not to do.
Derek Hodgin:And as you discussed earlier, there's kind of a, a symbol system of a red.
Derek Hodgin:X, like don't do this, a green check mark that this is a good idea or a
Derek Hodgin:yellow caution hand, like you can do this, but proceed with caution.
Derek Hodgin:So it's a very simply, um, laid out message for contractors, but at the very
Derek Hodgin:end of the each chapter, I have 2 things.
Derek Hodgin:1 is I have a list of all the things I just told you.
Derek Hodgin:About whatever the subject is, if it's foundations or exterior walls
Derek Hodgin:or roofs, here's all the good ideas because I don't have any illusion that
Derek Hodgin:every project is going to be able to incorporate all these best practices.
Derek Hodgin:But I felt like if I gave a checklist.
Derek Hodgin:At least contractors could look as a quick reference to see what are the things
Derek Hodgin:that we can incorporate easily into this project to make our project better, you
Derek Hodgin:know, and so some things might be a slam dunk and some things might, you know, be a
Derek Hodgin:little bit more difficult or cost money to incorporate, but at least they've got the
Derek Hodgin:list and they can decide for themselves.
Derek Hodgin:Here's how we can make our project better.
Derek Hodgin:But the 2nd part, which is more answering your question, is because I didn't get
Derek Hodgin:the opportunity in the book to teach about why all these things are important
Derek Hodgin:I have a suggested reading list.
Derek Hodgin:And so every chapter has books from my library shelf Or articles that I've
Derek Hodgin:written or articles that I've read from other people that I think are
Derek Hodgin:relevant to each of these subjects.
Derek Hodgin:So, from a younger person standpoint, when you read this book, it's going to be
Derek Hodgin:loaded with all kinds of references to.
Derek Hodgin:If you want to learn more about this subject, which to me is just the most
Derek Hodgin:important part about our industry is.
Derek Hodgin:Is learning and knowing about what you're actually doing in the field,
Derek Hodgin:this is a, this is a resource that you can look to to learn more.
Derek Hodgin:And so I think that's going to be a really great asset for younger professionals.
Todd Miller:Well, I agree with you, and I think the way you've designed it, it,
Todd Miller:it kind of sets up that curiosity, um, for folks who may want to learn more.
Todd Miller:And, you know, one of the things I, I, find sometimes and I don't know, I guess
Todd Miller:I could blame this on younger generation, but maybe it's a phase we all go through.
Todd Miller:But I find that people aren't real curious a lot of times anymore.
Todd Miller:They, they kind of just want to be told what to do and they don't want to
Todd Miller:necessarily go beyond that and learn more.
Todd Miller:And, uh, I think your book really cultivates that desire to learn more.
Todd Miller:Um, and to be curious a little bit about.
Todd Miller:Things.
Todd Miller:So I was just looking at the section you've got on value engineering,
Todd Miller:the, the dreaded value engineering.
Todd Miller:Um, but your caution on that is, and I think this is really interesting
Todd Miller:to a contractor, you know, be aware of value engineering that may
Todd Miller:jeopardize your, um, ability to do the job well, um, or your own, or
Todd Miller:that may affect your work in some way.
Todd Miller:And I think that's great spot on advice.
Todd Miller:Um, well.
Todd Miller:Tell us a little bit.
Todd Miller:How can folks go about buying a copy of the book right now?
Derek Hodgin:Well, the easiest way is probably through our website,
Derek Hodgin:which is just a positive friction, LLC dot com, and I can certainly
Derek Hodgin:provide you a, uh, a link or a.
Derek Hodgin:QR code or whatever we need for that purpose.
Derek Hodgin:But, um, that's the easiest way.
Derek Hodgin:My daughter Marley is the one who manages that site.
Derek Hodgin:And when people order a book, she's the one who ships the book from our,
Derek Hodgin:our distribution center, which is her garage and Somerville, South
Derek Hodgin:Carolina, where we got the books.
Derek Hodgin:And, uh, I'm at, uh, the world headquarters of positive fiction
Derek Hodgin:in Westminster, South Carolina.
Derek Hodgin:So.
Derek Hodgin:Um, they, I have some walk in customers occasionally, you know, that will buy
Derek Hodgin:a book, um, locally, but most of the sales have been through our, our website.
Derek Hodgin:It is on Amazon, but, um, probably less pre, preferable going
Derek Hodgin:through, going through them.
Derek Hodgin:So they, they take their cut and, um, and believe it or not, even at
Derek Hodgin:the price, you don't get a big cut.
Derek Hodgin:I did the, uh, the depressing.
Derek Hodgin:Business math recently, where one hour of my time as an expert witness,
Derek Hodgin:um, equals about selling 13 books.
Todd Miller:Wow.
Todd Miller:Wow.
Derek Hodgin:It's certainly not about the money.
Derek Hodgin:It's all about trying to spread the word about building better.
Todd Miller:Well, and I think that's awesome when you have the kind of
Todd Miller:experience you do, which, you know, your experience, especially with forensic
Todd Miller:and, uh, failure analysis is really set you apart and unique in the industry.
Todd Miller:So, um, no one better than you to go out and collect this information and, or.
Todd Miller:Put forth this information.
Todd Miller:So I'm curious though, you know, you're still out there.
Todd Miller:You said you're still working on some projects.
Todd Miller:Um, anything you have learned recently on a project that maybe was
Todd Miller:something you hadn't known for years?
Todd Miller:I'm just, are you still learning?
Todd Miller:I guess is what I'm curious about.
Todd Miller:Uh,
Derek Hodgin:things about my, um, career.
Derek Hodgin:Has this been that continuous.
Derek Hodgin:Um, ability to, to learn and someone else, you know, paying you to dig deeper into
Derek Hodgin:these subjects and, uh, and, and learn things that, you know, you might not
Derek Hodgin:otherwise as a traditional engineer, you know, kind of like contractors, you're
Derek Hodgin:subjected to a budget and a schedule.
Derek Hodgin:I'm not saying that I'm not subjected to budgets and schedules, but from a
Derek Hodgin:forensic standpoint, you get a lot more flexibility to dive into subjects deeper.
Derek Hodgin:Learn about the code, how different changes came about, look at standards
Derek Hodgin:and testing protocols and how products were developed and, you know, where
Derek Hodgin:the, you know, missing link was, or, you know, trying to solve a puzzle.
Derek Hodgin:And it's just been a blast.
Derek Hodgin:And, um, I guess from a recent learning experience, um, I wish I could think
Derek Hodgin:of one about roofs for you, Todd, but, um, the one that I, I came across
Derek Hodgin:recently was understanding that.
Derek Hodgin:Yeah.
Derek Hodgin:We still are messing up, um, window installations.
Derek Hodgin:You know, we, we had a problem with nailing flange windows and the
Derek Hodgin:manufacturers would talk about sealing.
Derek Hodgin:All four sides behind the mailing plans window, which is not a good idea.
Derek Hodgin:Um, the sill needs to drain water when the window leaks.
Derek Hodgin:And one of the things the book will tell you is all windows leak.
Derek Hodgin:So you just plan for that.
Derek Hodgin:But what I didn't realize was that we're also still, uh, so we've, we've
Derek Hodgin:figured it out at the sill to, okay.
Derek Hodgin:We stopped saying just seal the, uh, put the seal on at the sill.
Derek Hodgin:We had problems with self adhered flashing manufacturers saying to put
Derek Hodgin:the tape over the sill nailing flange.
Derek Hodgin:That serves the same purpose, to dam the water and cause the problem,
Derek Hodgin:so we don't want to do that.
Derek Hodgin:We figured that out, but now we're doing the same problem at the head of windows.
Derek Hodgin:You know, we're putting self adhered flashing tape across the head of a window.
Derek Hodgin:And so if you're at a single family, residential home with a roof overhang,
Derek Hodgin:you're probably okay with that detail.
Derek Hodgin:If you are on a mid rise wood frame building with no roof overhang,
Derek Hodgin:and you proceed to put self adhered flashing tape, sometimes
Derek Hodgin:required by the architect's specs.
Derek Hodgin:Or by a manufacturer's instructions, you are assuming that no water is
Derek Hodgin:going to penetrate the wall above that window and get behind your W.
Derek Hodgin:R.
Derek Hodgin:B.
Derek Hodgin:and that's just not a good assumption.
Derek Hodgin:And so I've got this case.
Derek Hodgin:Um, that I recently was looking at the rot at the head of the window, and
Derek Hodgin:they think they're doing a great job because they're just totally sealing the
Derek Hodgin:window up with the self flashing tape.
Derek Hodgin:But what they're doing is they're damming.
Derek Hodgin:All the water that penetrates the wall in the wall above that point
Derek Hodgin:at the head of that window water is penetrating inside the unit and
Derek Hodgin:it's rotting the wall ceiling above.
Derek Hodgin:But we, we think we're following instructions, but we're just
Derek Hodgin:not thinking from a building.
Derek Hodgin:Standpoint, you know, how it's going to perform, you know, long term.
Derek Hodgin:So that's definitely something we need to do better with.
Todd Miller:Yeah.
Todd Miller:Well, it kind of reminds me a little bit what you were saying there.
Todd Miller:Um, so a lot of times, you know, when I'm looking at a pitched roof failure,
Todd Miller:um, I will find people in there trying to troubleshoot and they're just looking
Todd Miller:at the area of where the problem is.
Todd Miller:And I'm always like, okay, you have to start at the top of the roof
Todd Miller:above this and work your way down in order to find out, you know,
Todd Miller:what really has happened here.
Todd Miller:So.
Todd Miller:Very interesting.
Todd Miller:So, I know that another labor of love for you that you've embarked on here
Todd Miller:recently, um, is remodeling a house down on Roatan, Roatan, where you like to dive.
Todd Miller:Um, tell us a little bit about that and what sort of work you're
Todd Miller:getting yourself into there.
Derek Hodgin:Well, when I talked to you last, uh, I had a contract on a house
Derek Hodgin:that we were, um, anticipating buying.
Derek Hodgin:Uh, the good news, I guess, is I have a really good engineer
Derek Hodgin:slash home inspector in New York that, um, looked at it and found.
Derek Hodgin:More projects than I was ready
Todd Miller:Oh,
Derek Hodgin:embark on, I was all ready to do the roof, do some railings, do some
Derek Hodgin:interior remodeling, and it was going to be fun, but I'll just say the extent
Derek Hodgin:of the issues were much greater than we were looking to spend our time on.
Derek Hodgin:We have, we, we closed on a house earlier this week.
Derek Hodgin:That is like the opposite.
Derek Hodgin:It's small and new.
Todd Miller:Oh, wow.
Derek Hodgin:It does have a metal roof, but it, uh, it does not need
Derek Hodgin:any, uh, uh, a new metal roof and it's the metal roof there is fine.
Derek Hodgin:Um, so my projects are more, um, fun projects like,
Todd Miller:Cosmetic.
Derek Hodgin:you know, doing some porch, you know, enclosure,
Derek Hodgin:some stairs, expanding my deck a little bit and planning some.
Derek Hodgin:Fruit trees, you can grow anything down there.
Derek Hodgin:You can live all kinds of different fruits and nuts.
Derek Hodgin:And, uh, so it'll, there'll be some projects, but they
Derek Hodgin:won't be nearly as extensive.
Derek Hodgin:We'll get to mix in some, some fun time as well.
Todd Miller:Well, I think I'm happy for you on that.
Todd Miller:That sounds a whole lot more relaxing.
Todd Miller:Something you can do at your own pace rather than gotta get this done.
Todd Miller:That's good.
Derek Hodgin:yeah.
Todd Miller:Well, thank you so much, Derek.
Todd Miller:This has been a great discussion.
Todd Miller:We're close to wrapping up what we kind of call the business end of things.
Todd Miller:Is there anything we haven't covered yet that you wanted to be
Todd Miller:sure to share with our audience?
Derek Hodgin:I am also working on the Spanish version of this book, and so I
Derek Hodgin:tried at first to find, you know, four or five Spanish speaking, uh, colleagues
Derek Hodgin:in the construction business to review.
Derek Hodgin:So you can hit a button on Microsoft Word and it'll do a complete translation.
Derek Hodgin:And, you know, not knowing Spanish well, it looked very comprehensive
Derek Hodgin:and it's like, wow, this is really.
Derek Hodgin:Seems like it's close and the initial feedback that I got from from
Derek Hodgin:Spanish speaking colleagues was it is pretty close, but it's not exactly.
Derek Hodgin:No, there's some issues.
Derek Hodgin:I've got to have tweaked to make sure it's okay.
Derek Hodgin:Um, things were not getting done with my, my friends doing the review.
Derek Hodgin:So I've now engaged a service that will help me get across the finish line.
Derek Hodgin:So I think it'd be awesome to have both versions in the field.
Derek Hodgin:So there's the English speaking, you know, supervisor, and they're
Derek Hodgin:going to install a metal roof, or they're going to install a window.
Derek Hodgin:And they say, let's look at this page together.
Derek Hodgin:And they're both going to have the same information that they can share.
Derek Hodgin:Because my experience, and I'm not saying this is everybody's experience,
Derek Hodgin:but my experience is most even high end contractors, there'll be a, an
Derek Hodgin:English speaking person that is the, the representative for the team.
Derek Hodgin:That communicates with the English speaking, you know, owner or, uh,
Derek Hodgin:superintendent, you know, the person running the show, uh, for the contractor,
Derek Hodgin:but clearly, based on my experiences, there's some things that are lost in the
Derek Hodgin:translation, either that they don't know any better, or they're just not provided
Derek Hodgin:sufficient information to do the work.
Derek Hodgin:Well, and so I think this is really going to be a helpful tool to bridge that.
Derek Hodgin:Gap where they can both have the same information and it could be.
Derek Hodgin:You know, shared at the same time.
Derek Hodgin:Instead of that, that game you used to play with, you'd
Derek Hodgin:tell somebody something and
Todd Miller:Yeah, telephone game.
Derek Hodgin:got to be something lost in the translation between
Derek Hodgin:that initial conversation and the person swinging the hammer.
Derek Hodgin:You know, so I think this book to having both versions will be very, very helpful.
Todd Miller:Well, great, Derek.
Todd Miller:This has been great talking to you.
Todd Miller:Before we close out, though, I have to ask if you're willing
Todd Miller:to participate in something we call our rapid fire questions.
Todd Miller:So these are 7 questions.
Todd Miller:Some are serious.
Todd Miller:Some are silly.
Todd Miller:All you have to do is give us a quick response.
Todd Miller:Are you up to the challenge of rapid fire?
Derek Hodgin:Sure, I'll give it a try.
Todd Miller:Very good.
Todd Miller:Well, question number one.
Todd Miller:I love this because it kind of fits in with the theme of construction disruption.
Todd Miller:What is a product or service you have purchased recently that was
Todd Miller:sort of a game changer for you?
Todd Miller:Sort of like a, where has this been all my life moment?
Derek Hodgin:It would have to be some technology, um,
Derek Hodgin:product, but I'm trying to think.
Derek Hodgin:I mean, I don't know if there's a recent one.
Derek Hodgin:I mean, GPS, I'm just continue to be amazed about, um, GPS.
Derek Hodgin:That's been a game changer, but that's not recent.
Derek Hodgin:So, uh,
Todd Miller:that's a good answer though.
Todd Miller:It certainly is.
Todd Miller:You're right.
Todd Miller:And it's funny, uh, when the little Garmin units first came out and my
Todd Miller:sales team, one of them, I was like, I'm not spending money on that.
Todd Miller:You could carry maps and I had all these maps, but
Derek Hodgin:I had boxes of maps when I did the insurance job, and I had to
Derek Hodgin:pull off the side of the road and call somebody if I needed to talk to him.
Derek Hodgin:So, between the cell phone and the GPS and my cell phone, I mean, you can
Derek Hodgin:get anywhere you want to go anymore.
Derek Hodgin:So that's that's something in the game changer, but.
Derek Hodgin:You know, not so recent,
Todd Miller:that's cool though.
Todd Miller:Um, okay, so what did the eight year old Derek want to be when he grew up?
Derek Hodgin:um, probably a truck driver or a motocross racer.
Derek Hodgin:Yeah,
Todd Miller:spirit of adventure with your diving and everything.
Todd Miller:That's cool.
Todd Miller:So, question number three, what is your favorite meal?
Derek Hodgin:oh, man, I've got a bunch of them.
Derek Hodgin:But, um, right now it is a whole fish with some crusty, spicy, um, uh,
Derek Hodgin:coating on it with rice and beans and plantains, uh, sitting by the beach.
Todd Miller:That sounds awesome.
Todd Miller:That
Derek Hodgin:for, um, 360 Lempuras, which is like 12.
Todd Miller:Oh my goodness.
Todd Miller:Good deal.
Todd Miller:Hey, I'll have to join you there sometime.
Todd Miller:So, would you rather have a water balloon fight or a food fight?
Derek Hodgin:if I didn't have to clean it up, it'd be a food fight.
Todd Miller:Really?
Todd Miller:That's interesting.
Todd Miller:That sounds like more fun to you.
Todd Miller:Okay, see, I just think of the cleanup, so I got to go with water balloon,
Derek Hodgin:Well, that's why I clarified the answer.
Derek Hodgin:If I had to clean it up, it would be water balloons.
Todd Miller:Okay, next question.
Todd Miller:Do you prefer pizza that is cut into pie shapes or into squares?
Derek Hodgin:I'm probably a pie shaped guy.
Todd Miller:All right, I see.
Todd Miller:I love squares.
Todd Miller:I'm kind of weird that way.
Derek Hodgin:They all taste the same.
Todd Miller:Next to last question.
Todd Miller:Who is someone from history that you'd like to have dinner with and
Todd Miller:what is a question you'd ask them?
Derek Hodgin:Oh, wow.
Derek Hodgin:So there's a few.
Derek Hodgin:I mean, uh, Craig Foster is the guy that, um, did this ocean change project that
Derek Hodgin:did the Netflix movie, my octopus teacher.
Derek Hodgin:I just love to ask him about his experience, you know, with that film.
Todd Miller:That's a great, great movie.
Todd Miller:Yeah.
Derek Hodgin:Yeah, I'll stop there.
Derek Hodgin:There's, there's, there's several heroes I have.
Todd Miller:Very good.
Todd Miller:Well, the last question, um, this one's a little more philosophical.
Todd Miller:What would you like to be remembered for at the end of your days, Derek?
Derek Hodgin:I think, um, trying to make things better, you know,
Derek Hodgin:trying to improve things and, um, share what I've learned, but I think
Derek Hodgin:this, you know, is a good step.
Derek Hodgin:What we've talked about today.
Todd Miller:Absolutely.
Todd Miller:Absolutely.
Todd Miller:Well, thank you again for your time today, Derek.
Todd Miller:Um, for anyone who wants to get in touch with you, can you remind them again how
Todd Miller:to get the book and your website or any ways to connect with you personally?
Derek Hodgin:Well, the website again is a positive friction.
Derek Hodgin:My cell phone number, if somebody wants to reach out or text me is
Derek Hodgin:864 650 5037, I think the, uh, email address, which I might get wrong,
Derek Hodgin:is on the, uh, is on the website.
Derek Hodgin:So they can, if they want to leave me a message on the website.
Derek Hodgin:You know, I'll be sure and get back in touch with them.
Todd Miller:Cool.
Todd Miller:And I know you're active on or you're on LinkedIn as well
Todd Miller:and easy to find there also.
Todd Miller:So, Derek Hodgin.
Todd Miller:Very good.
Derek Hodgin:Yes, sir.
Todd Miller:So, did you get in your challenge word?
Derek Hodgin:I did not.
Todd Miller:Did not.
Todd Miller:You had the word biscuit.
Todd Miller:Ah.
Derek Hodgin:What am I supposed to do?
Todd Miller:Your favorite meal could have been biscuits and gravy,
Todd Miller:but instead you had to go to the fish at Rotan and everything.
Derek Hodgin:set me up and I didn't even pay attention.
Todd Miller:My word was eyedrops,
Derek Hodgin:Right.
Derek Hodgin:That was pretty good.
Derek Hodgin:Yep.
Derek Hodgin:That I got to read the pages
Todd Miller:There you go.
Todd Miller:Well, it's been a great time together and I encourage everybody
Todd Miller:very much to check out this book.
Todd Miller:I think it's going to be absolutely invaluable to folks in AEC.
Todd Miller:So thank you very much.
Todd Miller:And thank you for being on the show again, Derek.
Derek Hodgin:You bet, glad to be here.
Todd Miller:Thank you to our audience for tuning into this episode of
Todd Miller:construction disruption with Derek Hodgin, consulting engineer and author
Todd Miller:of More than 100 Ways to Build Better.
Todd Miller:Please watch for future episodes of our podcast.
Todd Miller:We always have great guests.
Todd Miller:Don't forget to leave a review, please.
Todd Miller:And.
Todd Miller:So the next time we're together, keep on challenging, looking
Todd Miller:for better ways of doing things.
Todd Miller:Also, we, uh, ask you to encourage others, make them smile.
Todd Miller:Um, simple things we can do to change the world for others.
Todd Miller:So God bless and take care.
Todd Miller:This is Isaiah Industry signing off until the next episode
Todd Miller:of Construction Disruption.