The Intersection of Faith and Business with Ken Gosnell

Welcome to the Construction Disruption Podcast, where we

uncover the future of design, building, and remodeling.

I'm Todd Miller of Isaiah Industries, manufacturer of specialty

metal roofing and other building materials, and today my co host is Mr.

Scott Clifton.

How are you doing, Scott?

I'm doing very well, Todd.

Thanks for asking.

Great.

Well, this is your first time on the podcast.

Am I correct on that?

Yeah, I've been looking forward to this.

It is.

It is the first time.

Yeah.

So Scott is one of our territory managers.

Um, he works with our customers.

Oh gosh.

And a huge part of the Eastern United States, right?

My car points East.

So I, every time I get on the road, I feel like I'm going home.

I love it.

That's cool because he lives here in Columbus, Ohio, but his

roots are on the east coast and PA and New Jersey and points north as well.

So, uh, well, thank you.

I look forward to having you here.

This is great to have you with me today.

So, um, as a reminder to our audience, we are doing our challenge words.

So each Scott and I, and also our guests have been given a challenge

word by 1 of the others that.

Uh, we are going to try our best to work into the conversation as

seamlessly as possible without you knowing it, you meaning the audience.

Uh, but then at the end of the show, we'll tell you whether we were successful.

Sometimes we're not, eh, usually we are.

Um, and sometimes I'll see a few people are like overachievers.

They'll work theirs in like, Two or three or four times,

but we'll see where it goes.

So Scott, you're ready to go.

I am ready, sir.

Fantastic.

Well, um, I am excited about today's, uh, guests.

Today's guest is Ken Gosnell, um, hailing from Lakeland, Florida.

Uh, Ken is a business and executive coach, and he is the founder of CEO experience.

While Ken works to influence leaders today, he credits his

own father for a huge impact Uh, that his dad had on his life.

Here's a quick story that Ken tells that I really think summarizes who

Ken is and what he cares about.

So this is, uh, Ken's word, uh, Ken's words.

When I was 10 years old, growing up in the Midwest, I remember having

a conversation with my father.

My dad always took two things to work every day.

He would get his hard hat and his Bible.

One day I asked dad why he took his Bible to work.

He said that the Bible helped him and he wanted to read it during his breaks.

Those two items that my father introduced me to have shaped my life and my work.

So that kind of gives you a flavor.

Ken's dad was probably in the construction industry.

Um, but today Ken exists to help faith driven CEOs.

To hear the words, well done, good and faithful servants as they lead

their businesses to have a kingdom impact and live their own lives and

leave behind a legacy of success.

Uh, Ken, welcome to construction disruption.

It's a pleasure to have you with us here today.

Well, thank you guys for having me.

I'm looking forward to it.

Well, let's dig right into things.

So, uh, yeah, it sounds like your father had a huge impact on you.

Um, tell us a little bit more about, uh, maybe your growing up

years, your faith journey, what brought you to where you are today?

Absolutely.

So my journey started in the Midwest.

As I mentioned, I grew up in Missouri.

And my grandfather actually worked, uh, in a factory in St.

Louis, and he had the dream to, uh, own a farm one day, and so he moved

out to the middle of, uh, Missouri and started working a road crew, uh,

uh, for, for work as he continued to work to buy the farm, and eventually

he was actually ran over by a drunk driver when my father was 15 years old.

And so my dad started to take over the leadership role of his family.

And he raised his five brothers and sisters because back in those days in the

1950s, you know, they didn't have a lot of Things to support families during that

difficult time So my dad got into the construction business and continued to

work as a carpenter and then many other different construction Industries, but

his leadership really began to shape a lot of my life and uh Uh, like I mentioned,

or you mentioned, uh, when I was 10, I'd always see my dad take two things

to work, his hard hat and his Bible.

And those two things really helped me to understand kind of the key

values of what it meant to live a good life and to lead a great business.

It takes hard work, but it also takes values and principles

that should guide that.

And so, as I got older and begin to really dive into that, I understood that.

The Bible, who was such a guiding point for my father through all of his life,

helped him to overcome difficulties and as well as helped me to overcome

difficulties, really had the clues on how to build a great business.

And so what I teach today is that well done principles, there are 12 principles.

That leaders should use to grow their business.

And as they do that with these principles, they can also have

an impact on the kingdom of God.

And so I call them biblical business principles.

And so I work with CEOs and business owners, mostly privately

held small businesses, a lot in the construction industry.

To help them to think about how to hire the right people, how to

build their organization, how to set vision and strategy, how to deal with

their customers in an effective way.

So it's been quite a journey, but it's been a delightful one.

Very, very neat.

Well, so I'm going to ask you, um, put you on the spot here.

Um, give us a clue.

What are a couple of those principles?

Maybe not give us the full rundown, but curious what a couple of those

are to give the audience sort of an idea of where you go with this.

Yeah, absolutely.

A couple of my favorites is, uh, one of them is called Know

Your Order, Work Your Order.

Uh, Jesus made a statement to his disciples and his followers where

he said, Seek first my kingdom and my righteousness and all these

things will be given unto you.

And what I understood as I started to look at life and business was

every good thing has an order.

There's a first, and there's a second, and there's a third.

Unfortunately, sometimes in my life, and sometimes in my business, or

sometimes in the businesses that I help, we get things out of order.

And I often even hearken back to, to how God created the, uh, the world.

You know, it says this in Genesis chapter one, that on the first day, He

created the heavens and the earth, and then the second day he created, the

third day he created, the fourth day.

After every day, he said, it is good.

And I recognized God's wisdom over my wisdom immediately, because if it

was me, you know, if I had the power, unlimited power to do everything, I

would have created everything in one day.

I mean, why am I waiting six days to do things in one, you

know, I could do in one day?

Or maybe I would have created man first.

Because, you know, here's the crowning creation, right?

This is the person that's made in the image of God.

And yet God waited till day six in order to create the best thing.

Well, what that teaches us is God's wisdom is smarter.

A lot of times in our wisdom is that we need an order to things.

We need a first, we need a second in the construction industry.

We know this.

You can't put up walls until you have a foundation.

You can't put a brick till you have a walls.

There's, there's a order to things and the best businesses and the best life.

They understand what their order is and they work that order.

So that's one of the principles as an example that, that I like to talk about.

I love that.

I'm curious about, have you seen any kind, what's a common misordering

that a CEO or a leader would have?

Well, I think the biggest misordering is that we, where we, Uh, give

everything to our business and we forget our spiritual life, our, our family.

And we leave that in the, in the, in the background.

There's been so many business leaders that have come to me or people that I've

experienced in my life that, you know, they built a great business and they did

a wonderful thing, but they sometimes did that at the detriment of their family.

And, you know, I remind them and even in back to that Genesis account

that Adam had great work to do.

Right?

He was crazy.

He was put in the garden to take care of it.

He was to name all the animals.

That was, that was godly work.

That was great work.

That Adam was supposed to do, and yet God never called Adam to be one with his work.

He called him to be one with his spouse, with Eve, when she came

in, he made the two one and created the institution of marriage.

And so, you know, I tell business leaders, if you build a great business, but you've

broken your family in the process, you're not going to hear the words, well done.

Good and faithful serving from a practical business side.

I think 1 of the things that sometimes we get out of order is we focus on

maybe production and we forget people.

And so, whether that's the listening to the customer and understanding

what the customer wants, or maybe.

Taking care of our employees and helping them to understand that

we value them, not just for what they do, but for, for who they are.

So those are a couple of different orders that sometimes we have to reorganize

or we have to put back in place to make sure that we're doing things the way

that it's really going to benefit our businesses and going to benefit our lives.

Excellent.

Thank you.

Very interesting.

So you founded CEO experience 15, 16 years ago.

Um, tell us a little bit about what was life, what was your career before

CEO experience and you know, what really made you realize that, Hey,

there's, there's a need for this and, and God's calling me to this.

Yeah, absolutely.

So I was working with a large consulting organization, helping build bigger

businesses, uh, Back 20 some years ago and traveling around, uh, the world.

And then after 9, 11, uh, I went to Washington, D.

C.

and did some work with the government.

The government at that time, President Bush had an initiative to help businesses

or government run more like a business kind of some of the things that

we're even hearing the last few days.

And so, um, they really welcomed a lot of business people in to help.

Top leaders in the government to think more business minded

and so on and so forth.

So I would move to Washington DC for a short period of time after that.

And I wanted to still stay in the business world.

And so I was looking for a group of Christian businessmen or CEOs

to still do life with during this.

Short stint that I was going to be in the government and I looked

around all of Washington, D.

C.

and I couldn't find anybody that was leading or working with

Christian CEOs and business owners.

And so, after I left the government, after my short time there, I

decided God kind of place to call.

It was kind of a beautiful thing that happened.

God, give me this vision and my wife gave me an ultimatum.

She said, Back to my number 1 customer, which is my spouse.

I always say to our business owners, say, understand your

spouse is your number 1 customer.

Hopefully you'll keep that customer for 50 years or more.

Right?

You don't typically do that with your business.

And she said, well, you travel too much.

You're gone too much.

And we were having our.

Third child at the time.

And so she said, I need you to stay home, Buster.

You know, you need to not be gone as much.

And so God kind of brought all that together.

And I said, what would it look like if I founded an organization that I

could pour into the lives of Christian CEOs and business owners and help

them build a great business, but also do it for the kingdom of God.

And so that's how CEO experience, uh, began.

I, we, we kind of took a step of faith as we do in all businesses.

And I told some of my advisors at the time, I said, well, I'm looking for

a group of about 15 Christian CEOs.

Do you know anybody?

And their response was, I don't think there are 15 Christian CEOs in Washington

DC and, uh, , but you know how God, uh, how God does amazing things.

We ended up finding 15 CEO.

The first month that I launched that business.

And some of those CEOs are still with me some 20 years later.

So, uh, uh, God has done a great thing and we're been very pleased

and honored with what he's done.

Wow.

So when someone comes to you, a CEO comes to you and they're thinking of

becoming a client and they're looking at, you know, what you have to offer.

Um, what is it that they're really seeking?

I mean, is there something that they're feeling missing that they're, that

they're really seeking to, to achieve or accomplish or learn or grow in?

Yeah, I think, I mean, they come from a variety, some want to

grow their businesses and they want to really, uh, expand some of them may be

going through some personal challenges where they want a trusted advisor.

But the thing that I find or I hear most often is.

That most of the CEOs or leaders that come they really want to be in oneness.

And what I mean by that is that they often find themselves fragmented.

And I did too in my previous life.

And in many ways that, you know, there was the business can.

And, you know, those guys knew me and individuals, they trusted my

business acumen and my business wisdom.

And then there was the spiritual Ken, you know, when I go to my church and be

around my pastor and my, uh, small group or whatever, and, and those people love

me, but they didn't really understand my business side and my business side.

Didn't really understand my spiritual side.

And then there was the personal Ken, maybe my neighbors and my friends.

And what I endeavored to start was a place where they could

bring their whole self to it.

And so we're going to talk business, but equally as important as sometimes

what's going on in our spiritual life.

And we have people that come and they share struggles that they're having in

their spiritual life, or maybe, uh, uh, they're trying to form a disciplines

or, uh, you know, grow in their faith.

And, and then they also bring their personal life and we, we wrestle with,

we, we see ourselves as a partner with them in the business and in their life.

And so nothing is off the table.

We have to tell them that we're going to ask them questions that

everybody else is afraid to ask them.

But in so doing, we believe that because they have certain gifts,

talents, abilities and experiences.

That they're going to be able to fulfill their calling with

the, with the partnership, the way we like to describe it.

Since you guys understand a little bit, there's a great story in the Bible where

King David had a sin with Bathsheba and King David was a great leader.

And, you know, accomplished great feats for, for his

kingdom and for God's kingdom.

And one day he becomes tempted by a woman and he gives into that temptation.

And all of a sudden it starts a series of bad choices and bad decisions.

He tries to hide it up and he tries to murder your Ryan kills kills her husband.

And then he tries to hide from it and ignore it for a long time.

And there's 1 guy that comes to him.

And it's a guy named Nathan and Nathan wasn't a warrior that was

on the battlefield with David.

Nathan was a spiritual advisor that had been put in David's life.

And what I recognized in my life is I needed that 1 person or that those

leaders that knew the whole person.

They knew all of me.

And, you know, I believe Nathan was there and probably all throughout David's life

when David won victories and battles.

He was probably the one in the palace that whispered in David's ear, Hey, don't

forget, you may be great, but it was God's strength that gave you victory today.

Or maybe it was Nathan that was there whispering in David's ear after a

defeat and say, Hey, don't forget, you know, I know you're defeated today, but

God still has a calling on your life.

But we do know that it was Nathan for sure that went to David and

said, Hey, you're the man, you've got some things to clean up.

To be the man that God has called you to be and that's what we

endeavor to do in the lives of the business leaders that we partner.

We want to build great businesses, but more than that, we want to build them

to a life that they can hear the words well done in every aspect of their life.

And then for all eternity

sounds like, can you really keep your.

Your, your clients, uh, grounded and, and not like pie in the sky or flowers

in the sky, but really just keep them grounded, uh, through those experiences.

Has there been, um, I'm just curious in those conversations you've had, has there

been an, uh, a time where it's been just a real challenge to, um, to coach one

of your CEOs and keep them focused on.

On what's, what's actually true in the situation.

Yeah, sure.

Every day,

you know, I mean, leaders, we were, were, uh, a lot of times we have big

visions and we like to chase the latest, greatest trend, or, you know, we, we

think everybody else is, it has the problem and we don't have the problem.

Right.

And so I, and I have great, Uh, guys, and I have great coaches.

I have a team of coaches that that work, uh, using our content and

our materials, uh, all over the country and mostly on the East coast.

But we have some out West as well.

But, yeah, I mean, you know, I think every day is a challenge in business.

Every day is a challenge in life market markets change if you have

team members and employees that they bring problems into the workplace.

And so, you know, visit, we have great leaders, but it's still, we

have to keep them focused and 1 of the, I go back to that principle.

I've got to remind them.

Hey, no, you were to work your order.

There is a certain thing that God has asked you to do right now.

And you may want to do a thousand things.

You may want to do a hundred things, but that one thing that God is asking

you to do, and it may not even make sense to you, but that one thing that

you've been asked to do, that's the most critical things for you to do now.

And we're going to try to help to keep you accountable.

Another principle I teach them is, uh, I call it make the

move from owner to overseer.

And the idea is to become not an owner of our businesses, but to

be a steward of our businesses.

And that comes out of that parable that Jesus told about

the leader that went away.

And he had three employees that he appointed and gave different talents.

And he comes back and he says to the two of them that produce great work,

well done, good and faithful servant.

The third employee, the third guy, he got distracted.

Right?

He, he put his talent in the ground and then he went about his work.

I'm sure he was still working, but he wasn't working at the thing that

the master had told him to work at.

And so when the master comes back, what's the master say?

He says, Hey, you wicked and lazy servant.

You didn't do what I asked you to do.

You buried it, but you didn't even put it in the right place.

You could have put in the bank, got me a little bit of interest.

So depart from it.

He said, but you're wicked and lazy.

You didn't do what I asked you to do.

You didn't stay focused.

You didn't fulfill the calling of our life.

And I think about that so powerfully, right?

Isn't it life too short and business too hard, not to hear the words well done.

We've got to stay focused on what God has asked us to do the single

most important thing that day or that week or that month or that year.

So we better have some pretty good clarity around.

One of the things I like to tell leaders is I say, when the leader becomes

clear, Everybody and everything in the organization becomes clear and

that's so true in project management.

That's why we have blueprints, right?

Because there makes for clarity purposes.

That's why we have surveys.

That's why we go out and we spend so much time making sure

that we can do what we think the vision is that we supposed to do.

But we better have that clarity.

The moment we lose that clarity, we start to lose ourselves.

Very interesting.

Wow.

You know, I love that idea, too, of being the Nathan, you know, pointing

people back to what's important.

Well, I read on your website that CEO experience works through

personal peer and strategy retreats.

Can you tell us a little bit about each of those formats and how they

work and what impact they have?

Absolutely.

So, you know, when I thought about creating this business,

again, I believe that God's wisdom is better than, than my wisdom.

And so I tried to look how Jesus learned or how he taught other people.

And I actually found that there were seven different ways that Jesus interacted with

people throughout the gospel account.

One of those was with his peers.

He would go in and.

He debate with the Pharisees about a particular idea or

concept or passage of scripture.

And and so 1 of the things we use the word retreat, because we want leaders

to understand they're not in control that they need to get away just like

Jesus did to have some time to get some.

Clarity in their mind and in their thinking.

So I use the word retreat for the different methodologies that we have.

So that's a peer retreat.

If you will, when we get together and we can wrestle with usually about 15 other

CEOs or business owners, maybe from a variety of different businesses, but

there's a topic for us to talk about.

There's some problems for us to solve.

There's a biblical business principle for us to discern about.

We also have private retreats, which is more of executive coaching.

It's one on ones with the individual CEOs or business owners.

And you might be in a peer retreat, but you also might have private coaching.

You might have private coaching and not be in a peer retreat.

If you will, you might have your own private time.

They all get the executive guide.

So every month we produce a CXP CEO guide and we use the word guide.

It's it's part one part journal.

It's one part business magazine.

That's one part.

Bible devotion or Bible biblical application as we talk about

the business piece of it.

So, we actually want them to have two retreats.

That's part of another principle that we have, which

is always take the second step.

And so we'll be going the second mile.

So, you'll have your primary retreat, but then you'll have

a personal retreat by yourself.

Where you can get that guide and walk through and see what

God might be revealing to you.

We also have what we call team retreats, and that's where, uh,

leader, we challenge leaders to work with their own team members, but

sometimes in certain situations, leaders aren't able to do that.

And so we provide that option of coming in and maybe it's a lunch and learn

type of a model, or maybe it's personal coaching with a few team members, key

select group, uh, like general managers or vice presidents, where we can help

them stay on page with the Business owner about different topics and we're

expanding that, that business acumen.

We also have what we call perspective retreats and those are once a quarter.

And so people can come together and, and that's usually developing a strategic

plan and we call the master plans.

And so we have a different variety of, because we tried to start 1 of the things

that was important to me is I looked at some groups after I found that there

were some people moving in this space.

Well, what it seemed to be was very fragmented and what I mean by that is they

had kind of 1 option for a business owner.

And so maybe I have a, a, a peer retreat that I could go to, but maybe I didn't

have anything else for my team, or I don't have it for me personally.

And so if I don't fit that option, then I, I really can't

work with that organization.

Our mission is to hear, help people hear the words well done.

And so we believe in a Philippians 2, 4 model that says that Jesus, um, did not

consider equality with God, but considered others more important than himself.

And he came to this earth to die on the cross.

So that we might be saved, but and it said, we should have the same

attitude of Christ who considered others more important than himself.

And so we start with the CEO.

We say, hey, we, we want to partner with you for the, for

potentially the rest of your life.

And it doesn't matter what option you choose, which, which retreat option

you choose, we'll move in and out.

As what you need and what's the what's in the best interest of your business, but

our, uh, you know, our retreats are fun.

We, we laugh together.

We, we poke fun at each other.

We keep each other accountable.

We challenge each other, but we do want to grow in our business wisdom because

we're thinking of ourselves as stewards of our business, not just owners of it.

Seems like the folks who are on those retreats would certainly build.

Interpersonal relationships that extend beyond just the

retreat too, I would imagine

they very much do they, they, uh, they still even sometimes I've

had people sell their business, but they, they still will be, you know, call one

another throughout the month or go get coffee or they'll, you know, we develop

these lifetime, lifelong relationships with one another, which I just think

is, uh, Uh, the way that it's designed.

Another principle we have is we always will say our, our

relationship in Christ will always supersede our business relationship.

And so what that means is that we, we invite, even if you go sell your

business and you're not a part of our groups any longer, we still invite you

to come back once a year to a retreat.

We still have interactions.

We can still pray for you.

You know, we, we welcome back people, uh, that have been.

With us for a long time, because they're still contributing.

They're still adding value.

And so it really becomes more like a family than anything

else, which I'm real proud about.

So it sounds like with you having different, you know,

leaders and coaches scattered around.

So are these retreats sort of geographically centered?

You, you generally be with folks, you know, who may be from a couple

hundred mile radius, is that kind of the way it would work?

Yeah, we have 3 different types that's available.

So 1 is local.

We have different coaches that offer retreats in their local areas.

So it might be around the city.

So I have 1 in Lakeland as an example.

I still fly back to Baltimore once a month because my guys wouldn't

let me go, even though I moved from there and so, which is wonderful.

And I love to do that.

So that's not a problem, but it is geographical.

It is also what we call our circle of influence.

So with our coaches, uh, you know.

For me, as an example, and other coaches that we work with, I had

a network all over the country.

And so, in that aspect, I, I might have a retreat in Phoenix,

Arizona, a couple times a year.

It might be 1 of my perspective retreats and I go out there and just

visit them during that particular time.

Or maybe they do the private retreat.

So it's because of they, because they've connected to me and they know me, and

they're in my circle of influence.

And then we do have virtual retreats as well.

So, virtual retreats allow us to bring in people from different parts.

Uh, we, we, we allow our retreats to go up to 15 CEOs or business leaders,

and then we cut it off because we need to have kind of that group.

That can work together and in our membership, our model, they get

to select the new members as well.

So we'll have a guest that comes in, but the current members will only be

able to give the ability for another person to join that group because they

have to feel that connection with each other as they, as they walk together.

And so it's as much their group as it is the coaches group or my group.

And so we're, we, we enjoy that.

And they enjoy that as well, because they really do.

They're able to find, uh, other people that they can really connect to.

And again, it might be from a variety of different business, different businesses,

size, uh, you know, we look at, uh, a variety of different businesses.

Uh, we kind of look at, uh, Jesus's model of how he called the disciples.

And I look at four groups, uh, people that have joined our peer retreats.

Usually, you know, the first four disciples were fishermen.

And they were all in the same industry, the same business, Andrew, James, John.

And so I call those main street businesses.

They're really usually direct to the customer.

It might be your landscaper or your roofer, a construction business,

somebody that's really taking care of a customer or home home issue.

The 2nd set.

of disciples were Nathaniel and Thaddeus and they were more questioning.

We don't know a lot about them, but we know a few of Thomas.

There were a few times in, in Jesus's ministry that they questioned Jesus.

And so I, I say those are more thought minded businesses.

They're usually business to business models.

Uh, they might be an IT company or.

Or something that's solving a problem for business specifically.

And then the 3rd set is what I call consultants and, uh, you know, Jude was

in that group and, and, uh, he was very, uh, and James, they were very direct and

they were very to the point and they were probably had expertise in 1 specific area.

And so we may have our last.

For the next four is really a group of consultants.

And so it might be a sales consultant, might be an EOS consultant, you know,

it might be a operations consultant.

There's a lot of different accountant as a consultant, a financial planner, you

know, or find they own a financial group.

And then the last four is what I call mission minded businesses.

And, and that's four should be included as well, because, uh, after

the new disciple, when Jesus, after Judas left, he calls Thaddeus, but

they were on mission at that point.

And so these are a lot of nonprofits, maybe pastors of large, larger churches

that want to be a part, but when you get a group together like that in a

room where you have a wide variety of business and business acumen and

business experience, man, it just blows your socks off because you get the

wisdom from the individual, but you also get the wisdom from the industry.

And what may be normal in my industry can be innovative in

somebody else's industry, right?

All of a sudden they, they start sharing something and it's a brand new idea that

really helps my business to take off.

So, uh, that is the types of group, but it really comes

down to, uh, could be virtual.

It could be in person, or it could be, uh, in your circle of influence.

Very good.

Well, you've been pretty prolific.

You have a lot of content and resources out there between podcasts and books

you've written and other online content.

Um, you know, and I realized now you have content that you develop

specifically for members, your clients of CEO experience, but can you kind

of give us an overview of the content that is out there that someone can.

Tap into at any time.

Well, we're real proud of our content.

We, like I said, we produce the CXP CEO guide every month.

And one of our commitments to our members is that we'll never

repeat an executive guide.

And so we now have over 80 executive guides and those are

about 50 page booklets or guides.

That a business owners can use on a variety of different topics.

And, uh, and that's because, uh, you know, I believed in the Bible

and the Bible talks about preaching the full counsel of the word of God.

And the Bible is so rich and so full.

It's so applicable to everything.

That's in our that's going on in our world.

Um, our, uh, guides, we want it to also be timely and what we call timeless.

So the biblical business principles timeless, but a lot

of times what's happening in the marketplace can be very timely.

And we need to have that discussion that really showed

itself during covet as an example.

Right?

So.

Uh, you know, all of a sudden, some of the other organizations and I love anybody

that's out there doing anything for God's kingdom, but, you know, they, they have

a static kind of curriculum or content, or maybe speakers that were coming in

to speak in their groups, but it had nothing to do what was really happening

in the world when businesses were shutting down, you know, everything was being.

You know, totally it was a totally different world.

Well, we were able to respond in a timely way.

We were able to, we were able to talk about crisis management plans

and doing remote work and how to handle customer issues when, you

know, shutting business down.

And right now, for example, this month, we just released our CEO guide.

We're looking at.

Uh, understanding your prime gross margin percentage, right?

As costs rise in the marketplace, understanding how to look at your

margins and understand, but you know, the thing I'd, so all that stuff is

new and we believe that our guides are going to be valuable, but really we

understand that many ways it's just like toilet paper compared to the Bible.

Right.

I mean, the Bible is timeless and I love those principles

because that's what really lasts.

Right.

It worked 2000 years ago.

It works today.

And the principles that really guidance to shape every 1 of our business concepts,

they'll work 2000 years in the future.

And so it doesn't matter.

I mean, we had a technology guide recently.

We were talking about AI and how AI is impacted, which is great conversations,

but if you don't understand the biblical.

Lay a foundation of it.

You're really just trashing through, you know, the latest concepts or ideas.

The biblical concepts are really what's going to shape your

decisions in every new change that's happening in the marketplace.

I'm kind of

curious.

So, you know, I think that most, you know, people who are trying to live

out their faith through their business.

Um, at some point I've hit a point where they realize, you

know, I can't silo these things.

I can't keep my faith over and you touched on it earlier, you know,

faith and silo your family and your friends and silo your business.

But I, I think a lot of us, you know, are seeking that wholeness.

So we find that, you know, we can't silo those anymore.

Most of your clients, I'm curious, have they already hit that point where they're

saying, no, I want to, I, I, I've brought these things together, or are they kind

of still working through that process?

Or maybe it's a process that never ends when it gets right down to it.

Well, it is a process that never ends.

I talk about the biblical business principles are something that we

should continue to, to, to grow in and know, but we'll never master.

Right?

Like, I can live the rest of my life and work on becoming a steward of my business

and not the owner of it and letting go of control or figuring out a second mile.

But no, you know, I, and this was a mission that I, that I

was on because I do find it.

It's, it's easy to silo things and, and I would go through my entire business day.

And, and even though I was a good Christian per se, I, I wasn't doing

anything unethical or immoral.

I could spend our day and not think about that.

Jesus or not think about God or what God's wanting me to do.

So part of our, our mission, and we believe if we bring those biblical

business principles, and we recognize that leaders make decisions all throughout the

day, they've got a multitude of decisions.

And so these are really decision making principles.

That will help you to think about God's principle and bring those into

your life and into your business.

But it is a journey.

I remember, um, one of the guys that I worked with, uh, in DC, he recently

sold his business, but his name was Joe.

He was in a distribution business for, for, uh, wood finishes.

And so, uh, he, he worked with cabinet makers and, and, uh,

builders and so on and so forth.

He had this beautiful showroom in Washington, DC.

And, and when he came to me, you know, I want to finish well.

I'd like for you to help me sell the business, but I'd also like to know

more of God and, and, and God's word.

And I'd like to figure out how to apply that more to my, my business.

And I said, I think we can, we can work with you.

I said, if you're, you're, you're, you're, you're.

Willing to take some steps of faith and believe in asking the impossible, do some

things that might seem crazy at times.

And he said, uh, he was.

And, and so 1 of the things we started to pray about was he

had this beautiful showroom.

So, he told me, he said, hey, can nobody in my business as a

Christian, you know, I, I said, he was in business for 30 years.

He said, at that point, he said, I've never met a Christian,

never had an employee.

That was a Christian.

And he said, I've often wondered why God put me in this God forsaken business.

Right?

Because, I mean, I'd like at least to have another Christian around.

I'm partly hiring you because you're at least a Christian.

I can talk to you about my faith.

I said, Joe, I think you're asking the right question, but

you're asking the wrong way.

Right?

You're asking it as a punishment.

Why did God put you in this God forsaken business?

I see it as a mission field.

Right.

I said, God's putting you in this God forsaken business because he wants you

to be the Christian in this business.

And I said, I do challenge you.

I think you may not have had any employees that were Christian.

That's fine.

But I said, probably some of your customers are Christians and some of your.

Vendors are Christians.

You just don't know it.

And, uh, but we started to pray together and I said, let's, let's pray about how

you can, you know, use, bring God more into your business because you want that.

I know you want that oneness.

You want to feel like you're hearing the words, well done.

And I said, it didn't have to be something big.

It can be something small.

And so I challenged him to pray for 30 days and we prayed together.

And finally, one day he calls me and he said, Ken, guess what?

I've got it.

I got it.

And I said, got what?

And he said, I got what I'm going to do.

And I said, all right, this is great.

Let me hear it.

He said, God's been revealing to me, I've got this beautiful showroom

that all these vendors come in.

He said, I should probably put out a couple of Bibles in the showroom.

Just put them on a little table someplace and give them away for free.

And I said, man, that's beautiful.

I love that.

That's great.

I said, so what are you going to do?

And he said, I guess I'm going to get some Bibles.

I said, well, when are you going to get some Bibles?

Because, you know, you got to keep focused, right?

And the challenge, he said, well, I guess I can do it at lunchtime.

Maybe I'll go to the Christian bookstore and buy some Bibles.

I said, fantastic.

I said, call me when you, when you get them, because I want

to make accountability, right?

Because it's easy to say some things.

Uh, another passage that gives another principle that we talk about is, okay.

Know your yeses and nos.

Jesus said, let your yes be yes and your no be no.

That's a lot of conviction, right?

When we start to do that.

So anyway, Joe, sure enough, he went off at lunchtime, went to the

local Christian bookstore and he bought five gigantic, beautiful,

leather bound Schofield study Bibles.

I mean, these Bibles were, you know, I mean, they're thick and they're

beautiful, you know, and cost him about 80 a piece or something.

He comes, you know, he calls me up and, and I didn't know

what he was going to buy.

I didn't know, you know, all that kind of, but I loved him, right?

I mean, he was.

He was, you know, believing, but he also didn't, he thought, well, I'll put these

five Bibles out and we'll sit there for a while because nobody's probably going

to, I don't have any Christians, right?

So nobody's going to come in.

So he comes back into his showroom, gets a little table and sticks the stack of

Bibles on the table and pulls a piece of paper from the counter and gets

a permanent marker and writes on the top of it, free Bibles and sticks that

piece of paper on this, on that stack.

He goes off into his office and about 30 minutes later comes back into the showroom

and all five Bibles are gone, but that paper is still on the, on the table.

Well, sure enough, he asked his guy that was in the showroom at the time,

a guy named Gio, who wasn't a Christian by the way, but all of a sudden later,

it's a whole other story, becomes a Christian, which is a beautiful story.

But he says, Hey Gio, where did those Bibles go?

And, uh, I don't know.

I guess customers took them or employees took them.

Somebody took them.

And, uh, so Joe goes back in the office.

He's calling.

He gets what Ken?

Guess what?

And I said, he, I said, what?

He said, all five Bibles are gone.

I said, well done, just did something for the kingdom of God.

I mean, we almost just started to cry, both of us at that time, because

it was so, so beautiful, right?

30 years in business, about that time he'd been in business,

about 32 years, um, never done anything for the kingdom of God.

And all of a sudden he gave away five Bibles.

I said, you know what?

When you get to heaven, God's not going to worry about your PNLs and he's not

going to worry about your inventory.

He's not going to worry about all that stuff.

You know what?

He's going to say, well done because you gave five Bibles

away through your showroom.

And I mean, Joe just, you know, was just, uh, was honored and just so amazed.

And, and, uh, I said Five Bibles in 30 minutes.

Huh?

And I said, you know, Joe, isn't that amazing?

I said, you had 30 years and now in 30 minutes you are,

you've had five bibles to go.

I said, do you know how many churches in Washington DC haven't given

away five Bibles in their lifetime?

And he, we laughed at that a little bit and I'm not against church.

I'm for the, obviously for the church.

I just wanted to give him some, you know, give him some praise and let him know

that what he had done was significant.

And then I said, you know what you need to do next.

Right?

And he said, no, what?

And I said, you need some more Bibles.

Right?

And so, so, but it's such a beautiful story because that led to several years.

Of him giving away Bibles.

He had a stack, he ended up with three stacks in his showroom.

He had a stack of regular Bibles.

Now they weren't all, uh, big, uh, comfortable, you know, they were a little

smaller, cheaper probably at the time.

But, uh, uh, but then he thought, well, you know, there's probably

some people that don't know English real well in our, in our city.

And so he had a whole stack of Spanish Bibles.

And then he decided a few months after that, that, um, a lot of these, uh, people

that might come into the showroom, they might have children and so he should give

away some beautiful children's books.

And over, over the next few years, he gave away thousands of

Bibles throughout his showroom.

And when he sold his business recently and he, he retired, uh, he said to

me, and on, which is pretty profound.

He said, I wish I would have started sooner.

He said of all the things that I did, all, you know, I mean, beautiful, you

know, provide finishes for the cabinets at the Capitol and, you know, the White

House, and I mean, just beautiful stuff that he had him and his team and his

people had done, but the thing that he was most proud of was the thing that

he'd done for the King and the Bible that he gave away and, you know, that's

well done and that's what I love.

So did we sell his business?

Yes.

Did he get his money that he wanted for it?

Absolutely.

Did he train his team and develop them?

Yes.

But you know what?

If he didn't do the well done part of that on the other side, helping

his team become Christians and giving away the Bibles, then, you know,

he would have really missed it.

And he probably would have lived with regret the rest of his life

because he may have had a good bank account, but he wouldn't have heard

the words well done for all eternity.

So sorry, I went on a little long about that.

I get really passionate.

Well, it's obvious, Ken, and I got to say, well done to you

for helping that business owner you.

connect his faith to his business in a very practical

way that led to a great impact.

So well done.

Nice job.

And I want to, you know, as you're talking, uh, the question that came

to my mind was, is there, um, is there a rule of life, uh, or conduct

for the clients you work with?

How do you help, uh, shape or help them bring to life their

faith through their business?

Well, I start with each of them again, we go back to the individual.

So we take a wide view of faith.

I asked them to have 2 strong beliefs.

Number 1 is that they believe that the Bible can be their

rule of faith and practice.

And so it doesn't necessarily matter what church that they're a

part of, or where they come from.

Or maybe they may not know the Bible.

I've had several people that maybe they had a bad faith

experience when they were a kid.

But all of a sudden they, they said, wow, I can, I can really believe the Bible.

And so, and I need to, I'm not, we don't not only need to

believe it, we need to apply it.

Right.

So, um, James says that it's not good enough just to be hearers of the word,

but we need to be doers of it as well.

So we have that perspective.

And then the second perspective I have is, are they teachable?

Are they willing to learn and are they willing to grow and do

they have a level of humility?

Uh, the Bible tells us that the wise are humble, you know, the wisdom starts with

the fear of God and that we want to allow God to be able to speak into our lives.

And so, you know, if we start in those two places, then I start with each of

them and I get to know maybe their faith background and where they're at and what

they want to accomplish in their faith.

And we'll just I hope that, like my father, what What I really want more

than anything is to turn them on to God's word, because I believe I think it was St.

Augustine that said, if we bring people to Jesus, Jesus will bring them

right about everything else, right?

I kind of have a little different model.

If I bring them to the Bible, the Bible will help shape every other aspect

of their life and as it did for me.

And so once they fall in love with the Bible and let the Bible begin

to guide them or direct them.

So we do get real practical.

know their faith story.

Um, I believe Ephesians 2 10 that says we're God's workmanship.

We've been created to do good works that God's prepared in advance.

And so one of the very first things that I do with them is

what I call leadership DNA.

And I want to understand how God made them.

What, what are they, how, if there are some traits or characteristics that

God specifically put them into, because all of a sudden that helps them to

understand themselves better as well.

And so some of that traits come from their parents, their mother and father.

Some of it comes from their experience.

Some of it comes from their faith experience as well in their background.

And so we really try to start with them individually, and then help them to walk

out their vision or what we believe in our end or discover the vision that.

That

God has for them.

So I'm kind of curious backing up a little bit.

Um, what does onboarding a new client look like?

How do you help them find?

Okay, where do I fit within the CEO experience?

So we have certain tools that the CEO guide helps with

that because we have a set of tools.

That we believe are good for business, and then they're also good for life.

And 1 of the things that, again, I'm proud of is, uh, this

toolkit that we've developed.

It's about a handful of tools.

They all come from the Bible.

And so it's not just something that Ken created or Ken designed, right?

So 1 is that leadership DNA.

Then we also have what we call a focus.

A wheel, somebody asked Jesus of one of the Pharisees asked Jesus one time

what the greatest commandment was.

Jesus said, love the Lord your God with all your heart.

So mind and body.

And so what we've done is we've take those what I call those 4 leadership

quadrants, hearts of mind and body, and we break them out to practical applications.

What does that look like in our life?

As leaders, so heart often speaks to the relationships that we have could

be relationships with our key team members or key customers could be

relationship with our spouse or children.

And so we give an assessment early on where you add on your relationships.

How do you feel?

How strong do you feel about your relationships?

Where where my God be asking you to improve?

So we were able to develop a roadmap.

From them based on kind of that area and then we create a vision

for where they would like to go.

We believe principle number 7 that I talk about right in the book.

Well done.

Um, I talk about believe and ask in the impossible and it's a bigger

vision that God's given to us.

You know, I, I tell leaders every there's so many things that can be done.

That one seemed impossible because somebody thought it was possible.

And you know, what's interesting in the Bible, if you read all the

spiritual leaders of the Bible, is that God asked them to every one

of them to do an impossible task.

Like, it was impossible for Moses to go back to Pharaoh and ask

for the people to be released.

It was impossible for Moses to walk across the Red Sea, right?

It was impossible for Joshua to go into the walls of Jericho and just march

around and sing songs so that the walls would fall down, or Noah to build an ark,

right, or Jonah to win the entire city.

Right or David to win against the, uh, Goliath of a man named, uh,

you know, Goliath, the Philistine.

Right?

So there's these impossible things.

And so I challenged them to think and dream what's impossible.

Well, great businesses have created impossible things.

As well, right?

All of a sudden, Elon Musk is thinking about what's how do we

live in Mars as an example, or how does everybody drive a Cybertruck?

Right?

These are impossible things.

Steve Jobs did that and Bill Gates when the micro, you know, when

computers came into existence.

And so, you know, we've got to rediscover that impossibility thinking in our life.

And it's not impossibility.

It's more of what I call a dream and passion that God's given to us.

And so.

We walk them through that process of kind of where they are.

What's God, what is God calling them to do and to complete?

And then we set up some roadmaps along the way, and then we have these tools

that help guide, uh, not only them personally, but also the same thing's

true for their business as well.

We believe that God gave them that business as a platform and as a resource.

And so many of, many business owners we find are underutilizing the platform and

the resource that God has given to them.

And I'll give you just 1 example about that.

We, we had a CEO guide recently where we were talking about wealth creation

and many people, uh, you know, we, I said in that guide that and I wasn't

trying to be mean or disrespectful.

I'm trying to be honest, but many leaders and I did it for myself.

1 time.

We don't have any bigger vision than just making our next payroll.

So, I mean, we're, we're just staying in business for the next 2 weeks, right?

And, and we're kind of just there.

And yet, 1 of the things that God's done consistently throughout the Bible is he

helped business leaders build something.

And maybe for the next generation, maybe for the 3rd generation or 4th generation,

he did something in them because he was preparing them for what was next.

And so sometimes what that means is, uh, you know, 1 of the business owners.

I, for example, I challenged them a few years ago before.

I said, you know, your business is doing well.

Why don't we go buy a building?

You know, you God's giving you this resources.

Let's do something to create.

Well, right for you.

And so he was able to buy that building, but that building

ended up saving him during coven.

Because he was able to take a loan on the equity that he

had kept his business intact.

And so, you know, and I don't look at that as my wisdom.

I look at that as God's wisdom.

Right?

So God was giving him a resource that was available to him because he

knew what was next when that business owner didn't know that was next.

So that's part of the onboarding.

We, it's a system, systematic process.

We believe in know your order, work your order, but we start with where they're

at and then start to try to create the vision of where they'd like to go.

Well, that's great.

And I keep thinking back.

I loved your story about Joe.

Was it, uh, who owned the business and started giving away Bibles?

And, you know, he's looking at this and saying, gosh, I'm not

surrounded by any Christians.

And, you know, you helped him see the silver lining in that, that, you

know, this, this was his mission.

And, and it's funny, a couple of months ago, I found myself talking to my wife

and I said, you know, you know, I have hit this point in my life where I am

not surrounded by anyone but Christians.

And I kind of, you know, and I've kind of pulled myself back and realized,

no, that's not really the case.

That may have been an excuse, but, um, you know, it was a reminder

that, gosh, I, we, we gotta be out there in the mission field as well.

So, um, Ken, again, well done.

This has been great, beautiful stories.

Great time talking with you.

Um, we're close to wrapping up what we call the business end of things.

Is there anything we haven't covered today that you wanted to

be sure to share with our audience?

No, I would encourage anybody that's listening, you can get the book on

Amazon, or if you look up welldonebooks.

com, uh, just look for the book well done.

12 biblical business principles that will build your business with kingdom impact.

And if nothing else, my encouragement is to read that book, look at those

principles and begin to embrace them because I believe they'll change

your business and they'll change your life because you'll hear the

words well done all throughout your life and for all eternity.

So thank you very much.

I've enjoyed this.

It's been a lot of fun.

Well,

thank you.

And I will make this offer to our listeners here.

If you want a copy of Well Done, contact me.

I will get you one.

No worries.

So let me know any of our audience members.

I'll make sure you get a copy of that.

So again, great time.

Before we close out, I want to invite you and ask if you're willing to do something

we call our Rapid Fire Quarantine.

So, Ken, these are seven questions kind of out of the blue.

Um, you have no idea what we're going to ask.

Are you up to the challenge of rapid fire?

I am.

I am looking forward to it.

Good.

Well, Scott and I will alternate asking.

You want to ask the first question, Scott?

Sure.

Uh, Ken, is there any product or service you have recently acquired

that was a real game changer for you?

Well, that's a great question.

Uh, product or service?

Probably my Remarkable.

Remarkable tablets.

I really enjoy that because we can put the executive guide on it, but

it's a fun place to take notes and it can keep them all digitally.

So instead of a bunch of notebooks, it's one place for me to keep all my notes.

You

are probably our third guest that that was their answer

to that question, so um, good one.

Um, second question, do you prefer the top or bottom half of a bagel?

Remarkable.

I prefer the bottom half.

We did pizzas on the bagel, and so that always reminds me of the, with those

little pizza bagels that we used to.

Oh,

that's cool.

Interesting.

See, I'm a top half of the bagel guy because usually that's where all the

good stuff is at, all the tasty stuff.

I get those cinnamon crunch bagels at Paneria.

I shouldn't touch those, but anyway.

Okay.

Okay, I'm with you.

I'm a bottom half guy.

Um.

If you had to eat a crayon, Ken, what color crayon would you choose to eat?

Uh, probably blue because, uh, reminds me of the sky

and our picture of well done and finishing is, uh, when we go to heaven.

So, uh, it reminds me of, uh, what, what our future might be and

where I'll, where I'll be one day.

Um, fourth question, you're trying to survive a zombie apocalypse.

Imagine that.

What one person do you definitely want to have on your team?

My wife.

There you go.

We're a great team and man, you don't want

to see her when she's angry.

So I've tried to avoid that all my life.

Right.

So probably those zombies would make her angry, but we'd be able to.

Uh, work together.

So absolutely the mama

bear comes out, I guess, huh?

Here's here's a quick one for you.

Ken pineapple on pizza.

Good or bad?

Bad

bad.

I like regular pizza meat lovers

With lots of sauce Uh, very good.

Next question.

Um, name a couple of folks who through their writing

have had a big impact on you.

Uh, well, obviously the Bible is a big winner.

Um, actually I love books, uh, that are over a hundred years old.

And a couple, I actually have, we have a few guides that are designed around that.

And there, I say there are 10 business books that every leader should read and

they're all over a hundred years old.

One of those is P.

T.

Barnum's book called Forty Years of Struggles and Triumphs.

That was written in the 1800s and so I love that book.

Henry Ford, uh, wrote a book called the day and tomorrow Booker T.

Washington wrote a book called up from slavery.

Those are all powerful, uh, books that have shaped my life.

And, uh, my father actually introduced me to a couple of those books

and, uh, I just, I just love them because they're real authentic.

They're real, but, uh, um, not typical books that you hear and not books

that you'll study in business school, but I think they're probably pretty

essential to every business leader.

And they happen to be all Christian, by the way, and J.

C.

Penney wrote, the one exception to that is J.

C.

Penney wrote a book in 1950 called, uh, uh, 50 years with the golden rule.

And that that is a book I highly recommend as well, because he talks about and J.

C.

Penney went on to develop the largest department store ever

on in America and business.

That's been in existence over 100 years.

He started his 1st story in the early 1990s.

1907, I believe, and out in Wyoming and called it the golden rule store.

And then that's where that book came to be.

So those are some authors that you don't typically hear, but I've got great author

friends to John Gordon is, is great.

And Chris Widener, and there's a lot of great guys, John Maxwell, of

course, but, but I like those books that have been around for a long time.

Good stuff.

All right.

Last one, Ken, at the end of your days, what do you hope to be remembered for?

That's that's easy.

Well done.

Uh, if you say anything about me more than anything, I want to hear in the last

day and for all eternity, the words well done when they're walking around my, my

funeral, I want them to say, well done.

He did it.

He did what he was supposed to do on this earth.

And so those that's the 2 words that mean the most to me.

Awesome.

Beautiful.

Well, Ken, thank you again.

This has been a real pleasure.

I've greatly enjoyed this conversation.

Um, for folks who wanna get in touch with you or perhaps learn more about the

CEO experience, how can they do that?

Yeah, you can go to our website at www.ceoexperience.com, the two

word CEO and experience together dot com.

You can also go to, uh, we have for our peer retreats, uh, we have the

website ceoretreatday.com and then I'm on social media, uh, most likely

find me on LinkedIn is a good place to find me, but my name is pretty unique.

So if you just search Ken Gosnell, I'll probably pop up.

Very good.

Well, thank you.

This has been a pleasure and greatly enjoyed it.

Thank you guys for having me.

Yeah, thank you.

Did we all get in our challenge words?

Scott, I know you got

yours in.

Got mine in early.

Yeah, uh, flowers, uh, flowers and sky, flowers and sky.

You worked it in well.

Um, I managed to work in silver lining at one point.

Um, Kent, did you work in toilet paper?

Did you do it so well I didn't catch it?

I did.

Oh,

my goodness.

That's our guides are like toilet paper stuff.

We write.

Yeah,

that is right.

That that is the mark of excellence when you work it in and no one even catches it.

So kudos to you.

That's awesome.

Thank you again.

So much.

Can this is it

did hurt a little bit when I had to say my guide is like

anything to work through that challenge word though.

Well, thank you again.

This has been a pleasure.

Thank you guys.

I appreciate it.

Good work.

I've watched many of your podcasts and they're just excellent.

So please keep up the great work.

Thank you.

Well, thank you to our audience for tuning into this very special

episode of Construction Disruption with Ken Gosnell of CEO Experience.

Please watch for future episodes of our podcast.

Don't forget to leave a review.

We always have great guests just like Ken.

But until the next time we're together, keep on disrupting and challenging things.

Look for better ways of doing things.

And most importantly, don't forget to have a positive impact

on everyone you encounter, make them smile, encourage them.

So God bless and take care.

This is Isaiah industry signing off until the next episode

of construction disruption.

This

podcast is produced by Isaiah industries, manufacturer of specialty

metal roofing and other building products.