In this episode of Construction Disruption, hosts Todd Miller and Ryan Bell sit down with Josh Sanabria, an expert in master planning and urban design from Go Architect and Engage. Josh shares insights into the importance of intentional community planning and the critical role of thorough surveys in shaping public spaces. From school districts planning for future growth to city downtown revitalizations, Josh's firm specializes in strategic community development.
Learn how they use innovative tools like Engage’s survey software to gather qualitative and quantitative data to inform and support master plans. Josh also opens up about his journey in architecture, the challenges of leading a startup, and his passion for community improvement through art and design. Don't miss this deep dive into the complexities and rewards of creating cohesive, vibrant communities.
Timestamps
00:00 Introduction and Co-Host Introduction
01:57 Master Planning with Joshua Sanabria
02:31 Josh's Background and Career Path
04:33 Importance of Good Planning
05:15 Chicago's Master Planning Success
06:50 Go Architect's Projects and Approach
14:32 Community Engagement and Surveying
18:19 Quantitative and Qualitative Data Analysis
26:56 Understanding Project Support
27:40 Engage: Open for All
27:58 Versatile Applications of Engage
28:57 Author and Photographer
29:59 Lessons in Leadership
32:37 Future Trends in Design and Construction
36:15 Final Thoughts and Farewell
36:54 Rapid Fire Questions
Connect with Josh Online
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jpsanabria/
Website: https://www.goarchitect.com/
Survey Software: https://engagebygo.com/
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Connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, or LinkedIn
This episode was produced by Isaiah Industries, Inc.
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Todd Miller (2): I'm Todd Miller of Isaiah Industries, manufacturer
Speaker:of specialty metal roofing and other building materials.
Speaker:Today, my co host is the illustrious, the famous, the infamous Ryan Bell.
Speaker:How you doing, Ryan?
Ryan Bell:I'm doing well Todd.
Ryan Bell:How are you?
Ryan Bell:Todd Miller (2): You know, I'm doing well too.
Ryan Bell:I did have an interesting thing come up, so I had to go to the doctor this week.
Ryan Bell:And so I'm in there with the doctor and all of a sudden the nurse kind
Ryan Bell:of barges into the room and, and, you know, it's kind of surprised everybody.
Ryan Bell:And, uh, the doctor looks at the nurse and says, you know, do you need something?
Ryan Bell:And she says, yeah.
Ryan Bell:She says, there's a man in the waiting room who thinks, he's invisible.
Ryan Bell:I don't know what to do about it.
Ryan Bell:The doctor says, tell him I can't see him today.
Ryan Bell:Okay.
Ryan Bell:Okay.
Ryan Bell:a good one.
Ryan Bell:That's a good one.
Ryan Bell:I have one too, actually
Ryan Bell:What what type of cereal goes to the gym twice a day?
Ryan Bell:Todd Miller (2): I know what this is.
Ryan Bell:Am I allowed to say it?
Ryan Bell:Yeah, you should
Ryan Bell:Todd Miller (2): Shredded wheat.
Ryan Bell:Yep, good old shredded wheat joke
Ryan Bell:Todd Miller (2): Oh my goodness.
Ryan Bell:Those are good.
Ryan Bell:Okay.
Ryan Bell:Well, just to let our audience know, also, we are doing our challenge words once
Ryan Bell:again, where, each, Ryan and myself and also our guests have a secret, sensitive
Ryan Bell:word or phrase, we are challenged to work into the conversation, and you,
Ryan Bell:our audience, can be listening for peculiar things we might say, which
Ryan Bell:could happen at any moment regardless, but at the end of the show, we will
Ryan Bell:tell you whether we were successful working in our challenge words or not.
Ryan Bell:So, Ryan, good to go?
Ryan Bell:Yes.
Ryan Bell:Let's get
Ryan Bell:Todd Miller (2): it.
Ryan Bell:Okay.
Ryan Bell:So, you know, just talking to our audience.
Ryan Bell:I'm just curious as you experience life and you go into different
Ryan Bell:communities or developments.
Ryan Bell:Do you ever wonder what goes into making that community or development be cohesive
Ryan Bell:and assembled in a way that enhances the lives of those who live and work there.
Ryan Bell:Well, we're going to dig into that today by taking a look at
Ryan Bell:a thing called Master Planning.
Ryan Bell:Our guest today is Joshua Sanabria of Go Architect and Engage.
Ryan Bell:Based in Chicago, the specialty of Josh and his firm is helping, both public
Ryan Bell:and private organizations figure out how to make the most of their investments
Ryan Bell:through good planning and design.
Ryan Bell:Josh, uh, welcome to Construction Disruption.
Ryan Bell:It's a pleasure to have you here today.
Josh Sanabria:Great, yeah, thank you.
Josh Sanabria:I'm happy to be here.
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): Well, we're looking forward to learning what your firm
Josh Sanabria:is doing and what this is all about.
Josh Sanabria:So I know I'm just doing a little bit of research that you're a graduate of Andrews
Josh Sanabria:University in Michigan, which I got to confess I had not heard about before.
Josh Sanabria:You have not, you have not heard of my college before though, so I assure you
Josh Sanabria:that as well, so that's quite okay.
Josh Sanabria:But Josh has a bachelor's and a master's degree in architecture,
Josh Sanabria:so I'm kind of curious.
Josh Sanabria:I like to ask architects this.
Josh Sanabria:I'm kind of curious what drew you into this.
Josh Sanabria:this field.
Josh Sanabria:Is this something that hit you at a young age?
Josh Sanabria:You were the kid who was always drawing things around and rearranging the
Josh Sanabria:furniture, or is this something that hit you more as you approached adulthood?
Josh Sanabria:Definitely a thing from childhood.
Josh Sanabria:Stereotypically, I had a ton of Legos and building blocks, things like that.
Josh Sanabria:I was very fortunate to be able to travel with my grandparents and things
Josh Sanabria:like that and go to Europe and Asia and see ancient buildings and just
Josh Sanabria:kind of walk around beautiful places.
Josh Sanabria:I actually considered being a lawyer, but the moment that stands out is I
Josh Sanabria:was in Barnes and Noble and I walked in the door and I immediately went
Josh Sanabria:towards the architecture book section.
Josh Sanabria:And as I was standing there, I thought to myself, why am I trying to do law school
Josh Sanabria:when I actually just like architecture?
Josh Sanabria:I should just do that as a field.
Josh Sanabria:And so I switched my major one year in and was able to, get into
Josh Sanabria:the like five year package that Andrew's University had and did my
Josh Sanabria:master's and completed that in 2014.
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): That is very cool.
Josh Sanabria:So you're going in a completely different direction.
Josh Sanabria:Just like, why don't I go where my passion is?
Josh Sanabria:I love that.
Josh Sanabria:Hey, I heard the other day that the gentleman who started or at least
Josh Sanabria:kind of strongly developed Barnes and Noble passed away so, we can remember
Josh Sanabria:him, he was in his eighties and we got Barnes and Noble to thank him for.
Josh Sanabria:I don't remember his name.
Josh Sanabria:I don't think it was Barnes or Noble as I recall.
Josh Sanabria:Um, so, you know, as, as I think about you and I look at what you're doing,
Josh Sanabria:I, I kind of think you would probably tell me that good design and good
Josh Sanabria:built environment, good neighborhood development, good community development
Josh Sanabria:is not an accident, but instead it's something that has to be approached
Josh Sanabria:as a process and with intentionality.
Josh Sanabria:Can you reflect a little bit on what that means to you?
Josh Sanabria:Oh, definitely.
Josh Sanabria:You know, things are too expensive, they take too much time to build and plan and
Josh Sanabria:get approved, and you just don't come out of that situation with something that's
Josh Sanabria:of high quality unless you planned ahead.
Josh Sanabria:So, like you said earlier, I live in Chicago, you know, one of the
Josh Sanabria:country's, largest cities, one of the older cities that has had the
Josh Sanabria:opportunity to have a master plan and update that master plan literally
Josh Sanabria:over the last hundred plus years.
Josh Sanabria:And you do see the fruit of that planning.
Josh Sanabria:For example, I live near Millennium Park, which has the Bean and a bunch
Josh Sanabria:of other kind of public amenities.
Josh Sanabria:All of those things came to pass because people were willing to plan
Josh Sanabria:ahead and plan decades ahead and put millions of dollars into it.
Josh Sanabria:So, definitely does not happen by accident, definitely takes time.
Josh Sanabria:But when you think about economic benefits, civic, public health.
Josh Sanabria:You know, all of those types of things, it's, it's worth doing in the long run.
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): Very cool.
Josh Sanabria:A few years ago, my wife and our son and I were in Chicago and took an
Josh Sanabria:architectural tour, just us and a guide.
Josh Sanabria:And that was just fascinating.
Josh Sanabria:So, so I have to ask you, you mentioned it is the bean reopened yet?
Josh Sanabria:Yeah.
Josh Sanabria:The Bean is reopened.
Josh Sanabria:They opened it, I think in June, they did some accessibility improvements
Josh Sanabria:with ramps and stuff like that.
Josh Sanabria:And I guess fixed some of the pavement, but yeah, it's all open now.
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): cool.
Josh Sanabria:I wasn't sure about that.
Josh Sanabria:I'd read an article, I think must've been very early in the summer.
Josh Sanabria:And there were people had gone to Chicago on vacation.
Josh Sanabria:They were bummed because they were peeking in between cracks and
Josh Sanabria:fences in order to try to see it.
Josh Sanabria:Take pictures and things, but very neat.
Josh Sanabria:Well, tell us a little bit, about the types of developments and projects that,
Josh Sanabria:go architect that your firm works with.
Josh Sanabria:sure.
Josh Sanabria:So we actually work a lot with school districts who are trying to plan
Josh Sanabria:ahead for the next 10, 20 years of what buildings they need to repair,
Josh Sanabria:replace, or build from scratch.
Josh Sanabria:And this can be anything from handling new students, let's say a new suburb is
Josh Sanabria:being developed and you're expecting 500 new elementary kids, well, that's 500
Josh Sanabria:kids is a whole new school, basically.
Josh Sanabria:So, how do you plan ahead?
Josh Sanabria:How do you convince voters that you need the money to make this happen?
Josh Sanabria:All of those kinds of things need to happen years ahead of
Josh Sanabria:actually building anything.
Josh Sanabria:And especially years ahead of when students actually arrive.
Josh Sanabria:And then the flip side is also true.
Josh Sanabria:Some school districts are shrinking because housing is maybe
Josh Sanabria:too expensive in the zip codes that are part of that district.
Josh Sanabria:So how do we resize the facilities or what do we keep open or
Josh Sanabria:close or things like that?
Josh Sanabria:Which is not always an easy conversation.
Josh Sanabria:In fact, it's a rarely an easy conversation.
Josh Sanabria:And so our firm specializes in that facility master planning process, some of
Josh Sanabria:the marketing and finance analysis, and a lot of the small parts that come together
Josh Sanabria:to form that pretty long term plan.
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): So I'm curious, and this is completely off script for us, but
Josh Sanabria:I'm kind of curious, when you go into a, you know, a school district and they're
Josh Sanabria:looking at this master plan, has there been a trend recently toward not having
Josh Sanabria:multi site locations of public schools and trying to get them more centralized?
Josh Sanabria:Or am I just imagining that and perhaps it's just in some of the places I've been?
Josh Sanabria:You know, I have not noticed anything like that.
Josh Sanabria:I would say that it really depends on where the district is.
Josh Sanabria:For example, you know, here in Chicago, you have Chicago public schools, which
Josh Sanabria:is a very, very large district with literally thousands of structures that
Josh Sanabria:are part of the collection of facilities.
Josh Sanabria:So, at this point, we're more into the replacing and maintaining discussion.
Josh Sanabria:If you are in the desert of California or Texas where nobody lives there yet,
Josh Sanabria:well, yeah, you're just going to build new facilities and you're going to spread
Josh Sanabria:them out in a logical pattern based off of estimated or forecasted development.
Josh Sanabria:So, it's going to be a completely different strategy,
Josh Sanabria:completely different needs.
Josh Sanabria:Thanks.
Josh Sanabria:Of course, weather, you know, things like that.
Josh Sanabria:We don't really build schools here where people exit the
Josh Sanabria:classroom into the outdoors, but in California, that's pretty standard.
Josh Sanabria:Your classroom is the door is the outdoors.
Josh Sanabria:So completely different in every case, every geography.
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): Yeah, that's very interesting.
Josh Sanabria:And, you know, another thing as you were talking made me think so, I live
Josh Sanabria:in a town of about 20, 000 and a couple of years ago, it was announced that
Josh Sanabria:a Chinese company, automotive related related to electric vehicles, was
Josh Sanabria:going to build a new plant in our town.
Josh Sanabria:They acquired a
Josh Sanabria:I don't know, 1200 acre site, something like that.
Josh Sanabria:And this plant was supposed to be up in a couple of years and employ
Josh Sanabria:1500 people, which, you know, we're living in a community, an area that
Josh Sanabria:has very low unemployment already.
Josh Sanabria:And so I'm like, you know, where are these people going to come from?
Josh Sanabria:Where are they going to live all that?
Josh Sanabria:But, you know, then I did naturally think.
Josh Sanabria:How's the school district going to handle this?
Josh Sanabria:And, I never did hear if they were, were really, prepared for that.
Josh Sanabria:but the interesting thing was, this might interest you.
Josh Sanabria:So they bought this land.
Josh Sanabria:I can't believe they never did any core samples, but they started to do it,
Josh Sanabria:to do excavation and found that the
Josh Sanabria:fairly shallow under the surface is a huge bed of gravel, and they eventually
Josh Sanabria:determined there was no way to fix that, and there's no way that they could get
Josh Sanabria:the solid footing to build on top of, so the whole project is just stalled now
Josh Sanabria:for a couple years, so yeah, interesting.
Josh Sanabria:So does your firm does go architect do full building design, or are you
Josh Sanabria:strictly focused on the planning and master development side of things?
Josh Sanabria:Yeah.
Josh Sanabria:So we don't really do any, what would you consider architecture construction
Josh Sanabria:documents or anything like that?
Josh Sanabria:I'm not a licensed architect in Illinois, so we wouldn't really even
Josh Sanabria:be pursuing those types of projects.
Josh Sanabria:And even on the master planning or urban design projects, we always come in
Josh Sanabria:with a collection of partners who does things like facility assessments and
Josh Sanabria:other aspects of the job.
Josh Sanabria:So we're never alone and you know a huge part of the business actually
Josh Sanabria:of our business is finding excellent partners to go in on these projects with.
Josh Sanabria:So it's a little bit, you know, pre design, but as part of urban
Josh Sanabria:planning and urban design and campus design, you are designating where a
Josh Sanabria:building should be, how it connects to, you know, other resources.
Josh Sanabria:You could even determine things like the square footage and the size
Josh Sanabria:or the capacity of that building.
Josh Sanabria:So you're, you're planning ahead without necessarily saying, You know, here are
Josh Sanabria:the columns here, the doors, right?
Josh Sanabria:The style is still agnostic at that
Josh Sanabria:point, or the design is still agnostic.
Josh Sanabria:You more just defining where it should go.
Josh Sanabria:And that's pretty common when it comes to urban design.
Josh Sanabria:It's pretty rare.
Josh Sanabria:Even if we did some schematic, you know, here, it looks really cool.
Josh Sanabria:The chances of it looking exactly like that in five years when it's
Josh Sanabria:actually constructed very low.
Josh Sanabria:So we can't get too
Josh Sanabria:attached to the actual designs too much.
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): Gotcha.
Josh Sanabria:Very interesting.
Josh Sanabria:So, you know, I can't.
Josh Sanabria:Get this idea.
Josh Sanabria:You're involved with other firms doing other disciplines.
Josh Sanabria:And, you know, I, I suppose on some of these, let's take a huge school district.
Josh Sanabria:I mean, you're going to have more than one firm, even working on the master plan.
Josh Sanabria:I would assume.
Josh Sanabria:it's possible.
Josh Sanabria:Yeah.
Josh Sanabria:it's possible.
Josh Sanabria:Actually the very first one I worked on, it was split between four firms.
Josh Sanabria:There's a larger district and we each kind of split it.
Josh Sanabria:Now there are advantages and disadvantages to that.
Josh Sanabria:Now, usually now we are, we'll say the prime on it.
Josh Sanabria:No, it's not split between other firms.
Josh Sanabria:We just have, we are part of this contractors or
Josh Sanabria:subcontractors are also part of it
Josh Sanabria:in that sense, but we're not necessarily splitting everything.
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): I'm curious in what.
Josh Sanabria:What does that collaboration look like?
Josh Sanabria:Are you regularly getting with the other firms and meeting or do you
Josh Sanabria:become more like a kingdom of wolves all fighting for your own individual places?
Josh Sanabria:Or what does that look like?
Josh Sanabria:you know, I think in our case, we don't really market
Josh Sanabria:ourselves as, let's say, competition to other architecture firms.
Josh Sanabria:Or to the other partners on these, these projects.
Josh Sanabria:We have to work in partnership because we're each involved in a different sector
Josh Sanabria:or a different part of the project.
Josh Sanabria:So for example, we do a lot of community engagement, which is what that software
Josh Sanabria:Engage is that you mentioned in the intro.
Josh Sanabria:So
Josh Sanabria:Engage is a survey software that we created to resolve some of the issues that
Josh Sanabria:we were facing with community engagement.
Josh Sanabria:So, You know, that's an example of we were charged to resolve that issue.
Josh Sanabria:We have the software engineering expertise and energy and all that kind of stuff.
Josh Sanabria:So we resolve that and then we can use that software for many other projects.
Josh Sanabria:So there's not much overlap, everyone basically kind of adds some
Josh Sanabria:valuable item, and then we have to collaborate on the final deliverable.
Josh Sanabria:Which is usually some digital website, digital platform that has things
Josh Sanabria:about, you know, finances and money and staging, like staging out the
Josh Sanabria:progression of projects, things like that.
Josh Sanabria:So we usually work on that also since we're more on the tech side, a
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): Okay.
Josh Sanabria:So I'm curious, as far as your client's experience, how might they say that their
Josh Sanabria:experience differed or was better, because of your firm being involved and, and
Josh Sanabria:because of the Engage, program as well?
Josh Sanabria:Master plans.
Josh Sanabria:So seems to be going well.
Josh Sanabria:People seem to be responding well to it.
Josh Sanabria:I would say the key difference is that in the end deliverable, we
Josh Sanabria:have spent a lot of a lot of time.
Josh Sanabria:Creating the most dynamic type of master plan.
Josh Sanabria:So in prior years, you might end up with a deliverable where it's a PDF
Josh Sanabria:and it's literally two or 300 pages, and it just has all the information
Josh Sanabria:kind of dumped in one, but it is at the end of the day, a static object.
Josh Sanabria:So.
Josh Sanabria:We have programmed, invented all those kinds of stuff to make that final
Josh Sanabria:deliverable much more interactive.
Josh Sanabria:So now it's, for one, it's always an online platform where the
Josh Sanabria:facility managers or even the public can run different scenarios.
Josh Sanabria:They can see how much things will cost or might cost.
Josh Sanabria:They can view things like the community engagement results and
Josh Sanabria:survey results, and they can see what people wanted to prioritize.
Josh Sanabria:Of course, we can put in things like video and images and, you know, the video can
Josh Sanabria:add a lot of context that really isn't possible with simply an image or text.
Josh Sanabria:So we just are able to add a lot more depth to the whole
Josh Sanabria:pitch, to the whole package.
Josh Sanabria:Because that's also an important thing is that.
Josh Sanabria:You can go out and you can create a new plan for your downtown, you know,
Josh Sanabria:of whatever size city you're in.
Josh Sanabria:But unless you get the voters to agree, or unless you get, you know,
Josh Sanabria:the public private partnership components to agree, all you did was
Josh Sanabria:draw some pretty pictures, right?
Josh Sanabria:It also is a marketing challenge to get everyone on the same page.
Josh Sanabria:Thank you very much.
Josh Sanabria:And so our value proposition is that we help you make the best pitch
Josh Sanabria:possible for this or even if it's just a requirement, we make the best
Josh Sanabria:pitch possible to help you do that.
Josh Sanabria:So that's why we operate in such a kind of defined niche.
Josh Sanabria:Hopefully it helps us do that service better.
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): Interesting.
Josh Sanabria:So I'm curious, it sounds like you're pulling a lot from surveys
Josh Sanabria:and needs analysis type things.
Josh Sanabria:Does your company actually run those or are those run by outside
Josh Sanabria:firms and you just try to interpret and put the information to use?
Josh Sanabria:no, a lot of the community engagement and surveying
Josh Sanabria:information that's all gathered.
Josh Sanabria:By us in
Josh Sanabria:some capacity.
Josh Sanabria:So whether that is an in person meeting that let's say the client had maybe
Josh Sanabria:with, you know, investors or with let's say a school district, right?
Josh Sanabria:The school district may have a meeting with teachers or with parents and then
Josh Sanabria:all that data comes to us and we kind of.
Josh Sanabria:Figure out how it's prioritized, or if it's us creating a survey, for
Josh Sanabria:example, using Engage and sending that to thousands of people, and
Josh Sanabria:that is automatically collected.
Josh Sanabria:So that community engagement portion is a pretty substantial part of,
Josh Sanabria:of what ends up in the final result and ends up in the prioritization,
Josh Sanabria:studies and pitches, basically.
Josh Sanabria:Yeah, we're key to
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): I'm curious, I mean, I realize you guys don't do
Josh Sanabria:the, the actual design work and so forth, but does your final report
Josh Sanabria:ever include any recommendations?
Josh Sanabria:Hey, you know, this seems to be a community that is very interested in
Josh Sanabria:this or very, contemporary, or this seems to be a very traditional community.
Josh Sanabria:Does your report ever include that to give a little bit of advice to the
Josh Sanabria:actual, architecture and, and aesthetics?
Josh Sanabria:Mm hmm.
Josh Sanabria:Oh, definitely.
Josh Sanabria:So I'll be as detailed as I can.
Josh Sanabria:So let's say that you are renovating or changing your downtown, right?
Josh Sanabria:Maybe it's in the Rust Belt and you want to transform it into
Josh Sanabria:more of a, an area for tourism.
Josh Sanabria:So what might happen is let's take a good photo, aerial photo of your downtown.
Josh Sanabria:And we put it into Engage and we do a open ended sticky notes survey.
Josh Sanabria:So Engage can basically make these digital sticky notes where survey takers can click
Josh Sanabria:on the image and leave their note, right?
Josh Sanabria:So we create this survey and we send this to everyone that's
Josh Sanabria:part of your Chamber of Commerce.
Josh Sanabria:Let's say it's a few hundred or a few thousand people.
Josh Sanabria:And everyone is using that link.
Josh Sanabria:To put their sticky notes on this site plan or photo of downtown and since
Josh Sanabria:it's very qualitative data, right?
Josh Sanabria:It's very open ended.
Josh Sanabria:You'll get comments like, oh, we need more parking, or there's nowhere to sit,
Josh Sanabria:or I wish there were more restaurants.
Josh Sanabria:You know, huge variety of comments.
Josh Sanabria:Oh, very open ended, all over the place.
Josh Sanabria:Now, once some time has passed and we get enough, you know, survey responses
Josh Sanabria:and etc, We can do a couple of things.
Josh Sanabria:We can do a word cloud or use AI to create, you know, like word associations
Josh Sanabria:or summaries, we could see where people placed the sticky notes on the image to
Josh Sanabria:say, Oh, you know, this part of downtown has a lot of positive comments, but this
Josh Sanabria:area has a lot of negative comments.
Josh Sanabria:Maybe we prioritize.
Josh Sanabria:The project on this particular site or around this particular site.
Josh Sanabria:So once we have that very qualitative stuff, we usually would sit down with the
Josh Sanabria:Chamber of Commerce or whoever the client is, kind of look through it together
Josh Sanabria:just from a very high level, right?
Josh Sanabria:Now, of course, we have to figure out what's the budget, what's the capacity
Josh Sanabria:for the partners to make the changes.
Josh Sanabria:Obviously, you're not going to be tearing down every single building, you're
Josh Sanabria:not going to be, you know, wiping it, you know, from a clean slate, right?
Josh Sanabria:So you have to kind of be selective.
Josh Sanabria:Is it a matter of street design to maybe increase the likelihood
Josh Sanabria:that restaurants can do outdoor seating, which always creates a more
Josh Sanabria:lively event space kind of thing?
Josh Sanabria:Is it we find incentives to develop a certain Number of plots that has
Josh Sanabria:been vacant for a long time, or, you know, is it something else entirely?
Josh Sanabria:Maybe it's you actually construct nothing.
Josh Sanabria:And our recommendation is actually, you just incentivize
Josh Sanabria:street festivals and, you know,
Josh Sanabria:you you already have the good bones, but maybe you just need
Josh Sanabria:a little bit of programming.
Josh Sanabria:So there's all kinds of levels, right?
Josh Sanabria:Then stage two of community engagement.
Josh Sanabria:Now let's go back to Engage.
Josh Sanabria:Let's create a second survey, but this time instead of it being qualitative,
Josh Sanabria:let's try to do quantitative.
Josh Sanabria:So let's say we've created a rendering of the new downtown and we've included, you
Josh Sanabria:know, a new building on the vacant lot, wider with space for outdoor restaurants,
Josh Sanabria:maybe decorative signing or lighting.
Josh Sanabria:Let's say we've done like five different, you know, recommended projects.
Josh Sanabria:Using Engage, we can put what's called action dots, and essentially that's
Josh Sanabria:the image with a little dot over each of the projects that we're proposing.
Josh Sanabria:So it's almost like a sticky note in reverse.
Josh Sanabria:Because now when a person responds to the survey, They click on the sticky notes,
Josh Sanabria:or they click on the action dot, and they can rate that project from 1 to 5 stars.
Josh Sanabria:So let's say I rate the vacant land as 5, and the wide walkways as 4.
Josh Sanabria:I don't really care about
Josh Sanabria:decorative lighting, so that's a 2, right?
Josh Sanabria:So now I have provided quantitative responses to each of the proposed changes.
Josh Sanabria:Now, what that does is it eliminates the struggle of most community development
Josh Sanabria:where the loudest voice always wins.
Josh Sanabria:But because we can send this quantitative survey to the entire
Josh Sanabria:town or the entire email list, we can average all of the scores.
Josh Sanabria:So if everyone is voting one to five stars on each of those five
Josh Sanabria:proposals, We can see where on average people's priorities are.
Josh Sanabria:let's say it's, you know, filled out by 500 people.
Josh Sanabria:And at the end, you know, the vacant lot has an average score of 4.
Josh Sanabria:5.
Josh Sanabria:And the lighting is, you know, 1.
Josh Sanabria:5 and this, but the street improved streetwalks and restaurants.
Josh Sanabria:That's a five out of five, like a whole town voted on that, right?
Josh Sanabria:So now we have the quantitative data to show to the PPP, the
Josh Sanabria:public private partners, right?
Josh Sanabria:We can show them that, hey, most people voted that they want this.
Josh Sanabria:And we can even back that up, right?
Josh Sanabria:So, as part of that survey, we can ask demographic questions.
Josh Sanabria:We can ask, do you live in the town?
Josh Sanabria:Maybe, do you have kids?
Josh Sanabria:Maybe, do you own property?
Josh Sanabria:Yes or no?
Josh Sanabria:Are you a rental?
Josh Sanabria:And so we can kind of stack all these questions together to gather more context.
Josh Sanabria:So, for example, let's say that only tourists voted for
Josh Sanabria:decorative lighting, right?
Josh Sanabria:Well, is that a priority or not?
Josh Sanabria:Or is it maybe that, more of a blend of locals with families
Josh Sanabria:voted to increase sidewalk width?
Josh Sanabria:Now you have a really, really good case.
Josh Sanabria:You can take that.
Josh Sanabria:And put that in a PowerPoint and hand it to the mayor, hand it to somebody, you
Josh Sanabria:know, as who's has the public figure.
Josh Sanabria:And they can say, Hey, I, you know, 75 percent of families with kids
Josh Sanabria:want us to do this to the streets.
Josh Sanabria:Boom, right?
Josh Sanabria:You've already helped them make a pretty dynamic, quantitative, data driven choice.
Josh Sanabria:So, what the actual Wieden Street looks like will be handed to a civil engineer
Josh Sanabria:or somebody else down the road, right?
Josh Sanabria:And we know we'll need to find the, you know, 1.
Josh Sanabria:5 million dollars or whatever it is to take and do that.
Josh Sanabria:But At least we know what we're doing and we know who supports it.
Josh Sanabria:And this is just a very, very long kind of detailed example of what might
Josh Sanabria:happen at a project where you, you know, very little, but you know, at the end
Josh Sanabria:of two, three months, you can have a lot of information that supports any
Josh Sanabria:type of project that you want to do.
Josh Sanabria:Sometimes it's a surprise, most times, most clients already kinda
Josh Sanabria:know, but at least now you have the
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): Mm.
Josh Sanabria:to support your arguments.
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): Has to be great information to build them, bring
Josh Sanabria:to private developers, you know, that company that may want to
Josh Sanabria:put a restaurant in or whatever.
Josh Sanabria:So now I love the concept.
Josh Sanabria:So is engage, something that, you have made available to other firms or is it
Josh Sanabria:strictly proprietary to go architect?
Josh Sanabria:no, no, anyone can use
Josh Sanabria:it, engage by go.
Josh Sanabria:com or engage by geo.
Josh Sanabria:com open for anyone to use.
Josh Sanabria:Yeah.
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): folks, I could see it having uses for things outside
Josh Sanabria:of design and, and, you know, that sort of physical planning.
Josh Sanabria:I, I don't, you know, I haven't been at Zyno exactly what that looks like,
Josh Sanabria:but it just seems like what you've developed could have some really,
Josh Sanabria:far flung applications as well.
Josh Sanabria:Oh yeah.
Josh Sanabria:Yeah.
Josh Sanabria:It could be used for all kinds of stuff.
Josh Sanabria:We've used it for marketing
Josh Sanabria:where we ask a open ended question, you know, could even be like, I
Josh Sanabria:don't know, what parts of this car design do you like or not,
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): Mm hmm.
Josh Sanabria:do you like this outfit or that really?
Josh Sanabria:Can you use it for anything?
Josh Sanabria:And then you can.
Josh Sanabria:On your second question, you can say, ask for a person's email.
Josh Sanabria:So it could be an email capture, you know, lead generation tool.
Josh Sanabria:It really can be used for a lot of different stuff.
Josh Sanabria:We just obviously made it for our own challenges
Josh Sanabria:at first.
Josh Sanabria:So we've used it the most with that.
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): That's very cool.
Josh Sanabria:Very neat.
Josh Sanabria:So even aside from all this, you're also an author.
Josh Sanabria:Tell us a little bit about that.
Josh Sanabria:Oh yeah.
Josh Sanabria:Just for fun, mostly, wrote a kid's book, a couple of years ago based off
Josh Sanabria:of, one of my friends as, or at least at the time was one of the youngest black
Josh Sanabria:female architects in the United States.
Josh Sanabria:And so I was like, Hey, we should, you know, I'm gonna write a book
Josh Sanabria:and I make you one of the characters and, and in the book she has a son
Josh Sanabria:and he's the, the main character.
Josh Sanabria:So, yeah, just stuff like that.
Josh Sanabria:Photography has some chances to travel to some unique places and take some
Josh Sanabria:photos and do a photography travel book.
Josh Sanabria:you know, it's one of those things back in the day, I thought
Josh Sanabria:GoArchitect would also be a publisher.
Josh Sanabria:So, you know, books are very hard.
Josh Sanabria:You have to sell tens of thousands of copies to make
Josh Sanabria:any money with books.
Josh Sanabria:So quickly moved past that, but an interest of mine.
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): Very cool.
Josh Sanabria:You're a real renaissance man.
Josh Sanabria:So I'm curious, what, what is a key lesson or two that you have learned
Josh Sanabria:as a, You know, a leader, a manager, a visionary, when it comes to leading
Josh Sanabria:organizations, you know, doing a startup, what, what are, you know, just one or
Josh Sanabria:two key, lessons maybe you've learned.
Josh Sanabria:Oh,
Josh Sanabria:Yeah.
Josh Sanabria:You know, it's, I think you always have to be curious.
Josh Sanabria:I think that's number one.
Josh Sanabria:Always curious, keep your eyes open, listen, you know, we deal with
Josh Sanabria:organizations that, you know, not, you know, typically think of a civic
Josh Sanabria:government or a school district as huge sources of innovation, but,
Josh Sanabria:you know, You know, there are all of these components that are just under
Josh Sanabria:the surface and you know, if you just Brush off a little bit, right?
Josh Sanabria:You'll notice all kinds of opportunities and all kind of business opportunities
Josh Sanabria:So I think you only notice that if you're if you're curious, I think
Josh Sanabria:too you have to You have to give it some time like We started in 2018.
Josh Sanabria:I was very fortunate to have some of the previous people that I used
Josh Sanabria:to work for came on as my clients.
Josh Sanabria:So it was not, when I started, we weren't necessarily at zero.
Josh Sanabria:But it took a long time.
Josh Sanabria:It took, you know, two to three years to really get going and get the engines going
Josh Sanabria:and build up a list of projects and make the website look better than just like
Josh Sanabria:the one project that we had completed.
Josh Sanabria:You know, so you really do need, you need investors in a way.
Josh Sanabria:They don't always have to be financial investors.
Josh Sanabria:They can be a client, you know, a previous boss that becomes a client.
Josh Sanabria:It could be a spouse that helps support you or your family
Josh Sanabria:while you build that business.
Josh Sanabria:And maybe, you know, you, you're a single income household or
Josh Sanabria:something or family member.
Josh Sanabria:And I think that's a huge barrier for a lot of people, you know, it's like, it
Josh Sanabria:really does take two to three years to really figure stuff out most of the time.
Josh Sanabria:And even then that's not a guarantee.
Josh Sanabria:You may not figure it out even after two or three years.
Josh Sanabria:So patience is a huge part of it.
Josh Sanabria:and having good partners or good investors is another part of it.
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): that's good stuff.
Josh Sanabria:I'm, I'm kind of curious.
Josh Sanabria:So we're always kind of trying to look at the future of design
Josh Sanabria:and construction and all that.
Josh Sanabria:But any particular trends that you're seeing out there right now, maybe in
Josh Sanabria:terms of master planning, or, you know, maybe in terms of design, even that.
Josh Sanabria:it would be good for our, our listeners to have on their radar screen.
Josh Sanabria:You know, I think in a way, the only trend that I
Josh Sanabria:see is obvious is that people.
Josh Sanabria:Expect more, you know, let's say you go back to, let's say you go way back
Josh Sanabria:to post World War II, and the focus was just on building houses, responding
Josh Sanabria:to, you know, men coming back from Europe, of course, the baby boom.
Josh Sanabria:And we were, it was a severe shortage of housing.
Josh Sanabria:And of course there were so many, so like way more than we can fit into this podcast
Josh Sanabria:right now of social issues of, you know, housing policies, unfairly discriminating.
Josh Sanabria:So there was just so much to be done and some decisions
Josh Sanabria:were not being made properly.
Josh Sanabria:And so now here we are.
Josh Sanabria:You know, 70, 80 years later, and people really do expect a lot more.
Josh Sanabria:They expect their downtowns to be accessible, to be friendly, to be
Josh Sanabria:economically self supporting, or even beyond self supporting, you know,
Josh Sanabria:they expect it to add to the place.
Josh Sanabria:And that I think is a relatively, relatively, of course,
Josh Sanabria:let's say it's 30, 40 year.
Josh Sanabria:where people know generally what a nice place looks like or feels like, you
Josh Sanabria:know, we see enough things on Instagram.
Josh Sanabria:to know what beautiful spaces or at least what people perceive as beautiful spaces.
Josh Sanabria:So, I think in general, there's a higher level quality of care.
Josh Sanabria:There's a higher level of professional care.
Josh Sanabria:Of course, the requirements around community engagement have changed.
Josh Sanabria:Dramatically changed.
Josh Sanabria:you don't have to go far back to there's a pretty famous figure in New York City.
Josh Sanabria:you know, housing development, Robert Moses, where he just like
Josh Sanabria:built stuff randomly, you know, with real no community engagement.
Josh Sanabria:And there was of course, backlash to that.
Josh Sanabria:it's it's expected.
Josh Sanabria:It's sometimes legally required or contractually required.
Josh Sanabria:So I think the trend is only going to increase where people expect more.
Josh Sanabria:and you have to be dynamic in how you respond to that.
Josh Sanabria:You have to back up what you do with data.
Josh Sanabria:qualitative and quantitative data because each have their,
Josh Sanabria:you know, their own value.
Josh Sanabria:so I guess, I guess my piece of advice would be to, make sure that
Josh Sanabria:you're actually improving, you know, you're not living in the past.
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): You know, I think that's really interesting because one of the
Josh Sanabria:things that, I often talk to our team here in manufacturing is, you know, I think the
Josh Sanabria:trend is consumers are, you know, there are suddenly a couple of years ago, this
Josh Sanabria:word called bespoke started being used.
Josh Sanabria:You know, going around, everything was custom and, you know, typically
Josh Sanabria:manufacturers don't think that way.
Josh Sanabria:but I think the reality is consumers are going to start to expect it.
Josh Sanabria:And, you know, someone's going to jump the shark and, and someone's got
Josh Sanabria:to start to do that bespoke thing.
Josh Sanabria:And suddenly everyone's going to have to, cause everyone will expect it.
Josh Sanabria:So that's, that's a good advice there.
Josh Sanabria:I love it.
Josh Sanabria:Yeah.
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): Well, this has been a great time talking to you, Josh.
Josh Sanabria:very interesting.
Josh Sanabria:So we're, we're close to wrapping up.
Josh Sanabria:We call the business end of things.
Josh Sanabria:is there anything we haven't covered yet today that you wanted to be
Josh Sanabria:sure to share with our audience?
Josh Sanabria:No, it's been nice to talk about things and I
Josh Sanabria:guess, you know, partying pieces that Engage is free to use.
Josh Sanabria:So I'm always curious to see how people use it.
Josh Sanabria:They can go to the website and check it out.
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): Remind me of the website again.
Josh Sanabria:Engage by go.
Josh Sanabria:com.
Josh Sanabria:So engage B Y G O.
Josh Sanabria:com.
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): I have not checked it out yet.
Josh Sanabria:I'm sorry to say, but I will now.
Josh Sanabria:very, very fascinating.
Josh Sanabria:So before we close out, we have a little something we like to do
Josh Sanabria:called our rapid fire questions.
Josh Sanabria:These are seven questions.
Josh Sanabria:you up to the challenge of rapid fire?
Josh Sanabria:let's do it.
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): Okay.
Josh Sanabria:Ryan, let's alternate.
Josh Sanabria:You want to ask the first one?
Ryan Bell:I would love to.
Ryan Bell:Question number one, what is a product or service you've recently acquired that
Ryan Bell:was kind of a real game changer for you?
Ryan Bell:And you can't say engage on this one.
Josh Sanabria:That'd be cheating.
Josh Sanabria:you know, huge shout out to my project management software.
Josh Sanabria:So it's very small company.
Josh Sanabria:It's called Sun Sama.
Josh Sanabria:S U N S A M A.
Josh Sanabria:So it's a kind of task list, but it's based off of days instead of just like
Josh Sanabria:projects and it's kind of, so it's like a calendar and task list combined.
Josh Sanabria:Anyway, I found it and I loved it.
Josh Sanabria:small team, like two person team, not a famous software
Josh Sanabria:by any means, but very useful.
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): Very cool.
Josh Sanabria:Sun sama.
Josh Sanabria:Yeah, I want to check that out.
Ryan Bell:Me
Ryan Bell:too.
Ryan Bell:Todd Miller (2): number two.
Ryan Bell:at the end of your days, what would you like to be remembered for?
Josh Sanabria:At the end, at the end, and
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): Way, way down the road.
Josh Sanabria:yeah, way down the road.
Josh Sanabria:you know, I think both in my profession, but also just in personal life, I
Josh Sanabria:really do like to improve communities.
Josh Sanabria:So I, you know, I'm part of a, Church community here in Chicago.
Josh Sanabria:I volunteer as an art non profit.
Josh Sanabria:I even am part of a rollerblading You know group that goes around on
Josh Sanabria:Friday afternoons and rollerblades in the city Of course, my work is
Josh Sanabria:basically mostly about community.
Josh Sanabria:So I would hope in some capacity I'm remembered as somebody who Brought value
Josh Sanabria:to the communities that I was part of.
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): Beautiful.
Josh Sanabria:Love it.
Ryan Bell:We didn't make you miss your Friday afternoon
Ryan Bell:Todd Miller (2): I thought about
Josh Sanabria:no.
Josh Sanabria:no.
Josh Sanabria:I
Josh Sanabria:mean, it's only one o'clock,
Ryan Bell:Oh, okay.
Ryan Bell:All right.
Ryan Bell:It's
Ryan Bell:a little later.
Ryan Bell:Okay, good.
Ryan Bell:Question number three, what is your biggest pet peeve?
Josh Sanabria:Oh, oh man.
Josh Sanabria:you know, my biggest pet peeve right now is, is the abundance of
Josh Sanabria:random and not that useful AI tools.
Josh Sanabria:I feel like I go onto all these tech websites and it's always,
Josh Sanabria:you know, Oh, I made this AI tool to do, you know, X, Y, Z thing.
Josh Sanabria:And I look at it, I'm like, well, why?
Josh Sanabria:Like, did I really, did anyone really need this?
Josh Sanabria:I don't, I think it's a very general AI annoyance that I'm
Josh Sanabria:facing at this exact moment.
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): That is good.
Josh Sanabria:Although I was afraid you were going to say that your biggest pet
Josh Sanabria:peeve was a random and not that useful podcasts that are out there.
Josh Sanabria:But so I was glad we didn't end up there.
Ryan Bell:you know, I discovered earlier today on my lunch, I was
Ryan Bell:scrolling through Instagram while I was eating that I have a pet peeve of
Ryan Bell:people touching their computer screens.
Ryan Bell:And I don't think I've ever realized it before, but this guy was pointing
Ryan Bell:something out and he was poking his screen and it just drove me nuts.
Josh Sanabria:not a touch
Ryan Bell:Drove me nuts.
Ryan Bell:Yes.
Ryan Bell:Todd Miller (2): So, so honestly, Ryan, did that drive you nuts or the potential
Ryan Bell:for fingerprints being left on his screen?
Ryan Bell:of the fingerprints that get left on it.
Ryan Bell:Todd Miller (2): I, I know you too well.
Josh Sanabria:I like it.
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): next question.
Josh Sanabria:What is a cause that you're passionate about?
Josh Sanabria:Well, I volunteer at a art nonprofit here in
Josh Sanabria:town called Epic Art House.
Josh Sanabria:So we have free classes for kids.
Josh Sanabria:We have pottery classes, drawing, block printing, all kinds of stuff.
Josh Sanabria:So I, I teach a couple of classes.
Josh Sanabria:I volunteer to help find new teachers, things like that.
Josh Sanabria:So Yeah, Epic Art House in Chicago is something I'm involved with a lot.
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): You're giving me all kinds of things I got to look up now.
Ryan Bell:Okay.
Ryan Bell:Next question.
Ryan Bell:and maybe you've already crossed this off, but what is your bucket list vacation?
Ryan Bell:You still have one?
Josh Sanabria:Oh, Bucket List vacation.
Josh Sanabria:You know, I'm very fortunate, my wife and I get to travel a lot.
Josh Sanabria:We just got back from Iceland, like, five days ago.
Josh Sanabria:Iceland's definitely on, should be on everyone's bucket list.
Josh Sanabria:It's a beautiful, beautiful country.
Josh Sanabria:Cold, unsurprisingly, but there's waterfalls everywhere and sheep
Josh Sanabria:and just wilderness and glaciers.
Josh Sanabria:So definitely top five.
Josh Sanabria:maybe it's a little bit, well, maybe not stereotypical, but it's literally ancient.
Josh Sanabria:I have still not gone to Egypt and I really would like to sail down
Josh Sanabria:the Nile and do that whole thing.
Josh Sanabria:So.
Josh Sanabria:I guess Egypt is my next one.
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): Very cool.
Josh Sanabria:If you could time travel to any period in time, what time period would you choose?
Josh Sanabria:probably, you know, probably somewhere, ancient
Josh Sanabria:Roman empire, somewhere in there.
Josh Sanabria:I, you know, there's so many influences that the Romans and
Josh Sanabria:Greeks had on almost everything.
Josh Sanabria:Our governments are certainly architecture, design,
Josh Sanabria:urban planning, social items, sports.
Josh Sanabria:I mean, you name it.
Josh Sanabria:So it'd be fun to kind of go back and See if it's anything like we have imagined
Josh Sanabria:in movies, or just in my own mind.
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): Very good.
Ryan Bell:final question.
Ryan Bell:What is your favorite book or a book that you've read recently
Ryan Bell:that you really enjoyed?
Josh Sanabria:Okay, favorite book.
Josh Sanabria:favorite book.
Josh Sanabria:So, actually one of my favorite books, which I kind of disagree with on a
Josh Sanabria:fundamental level, but it still is one of my favorites, is Hitchhiker's Guide to the
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): Galaxy.
Josh Sanabria:So, the premise of the book, of course, is, is that, Well, the
Josh Sanabria:underlying theme is that all life is kind of random and a little bit meaningless.
Josh Sanabria:And the author was, he was Douglas Adams.
Josh Sanabria:He was kind of, I would go beyond atheist.
Josh Sanabria:He was more, well, I don't know the term for it, but basically
Josh Sanabria:he was like everything in life is kind of random and meaningless.
Josh Sanabria:So we should just, you know, enjoy it.
Josh Sanabria:And people travel through the universe in this book and they discover, right?
Josh Sanabria:And it, it, the stereotype or the kind of famous part is
Josh Sanabria:that the answer to life is 42.
Josh Sanabria:And it's like, well, what does that mean?
Josh Sanabria:And then farther down the series, they discover it's just 6 times 7.
Josh Sanabria:So it's like, it has no actual deeper meaning.
Josh Sanabria:So I read this book.
Josh Sanabria:It's hilarious.
Josh Sanabria:But then it also, ironically, it, Was I came out of that book
Josh Sanabria:with the opposite perspective.
Josh Sanabria:I was like, wait a minute.
Josh Sanabria:Everything is meaningful like
Josh Sanabria:So the book had the complete opposite effect on me.
Josh Sanabria:It was maybe The author intended so I would put that out when it out there as
Josh Sanabria:one of the more impactful books in my life
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): Very cool.
Josh Sanabria:Very neat.
Josh Sanabria:I had to read that in college and, yeah, it was just,
Josh Sanabria:psychology or philosophies class.
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): yeah, it was just an assignment to me, unfortunately.
Josh Sanabria:well, this
Josh Sanabria:an absurd
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): Well,
Josh Sanabria:it has the themes.
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): this has been great.
Josh Sanabria:Thank you again, Josh, for joining us.
Josh Sanabria:For folks who want to get in touch with you or learn more about Go
Josh Sanabria:Architect or Engage, remind us again some ways they can do that.
Josh Sanabria:Sure.
Josh Sanabria:So they can go to engage by go.
Josh Sanabria:com.
Josh Sanabria:So engage B Y G O.
Josh Sanabria:com.
Josh Sanabria:If they want to sign up and use engage for free, they're interested more on
Josh Sanabria:the urban planning and design side.
Josh Sanabria:Go architect.
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): Very good.
Josh Sanabria:And we will put those in the show notes as well.
Josh Sanabria:So we have to recap our challenge words.
Josh Sanabria:Ryan, you worked yours in right off the, right off the bat.
Ryan Bell:I did.
Ryan Bell:I wasn't sure there was any way I was going to get it in if it wasn't
Ryan Bell:right at the beginning with the joke.
Ryan Bell:So, shredded wheat was my phrase, but you used it first, but then I
Ryan Bell:repeated it, so I think that counts.
Ryan Bell:Todd Miller (2): I
Ryan Bell:know it was funny when I, when I heard the setup, I'm thinking, Oh gosh.
Ryan Bell:And I don't remember if that was your word or my word.
Ryan Bell:So I thought, is he being nice to me?
Ryan Bell:So I wasn't sure what I should do.
Josh Sanabria:boy.
Josh Sanabria:Heh
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): My phrase, which, Ryan had thrown out there, Josh had thrown out
Josh Sanabria:there, I apologize, was kingdom of wolves.
Josh Sanabria:I kind of worked it a little bit weird way, but
Josh Sanabria:You did.
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): oh gosh, Josh, did you get your, you
Josh Sanabria:didn't get yours in, is that?
Josh Sanabria:didn't.
Josh Sanabria:Mine was run forest run.
Josh Sanabria:I, I really was trying to think about, about everything with Forrest
Josh Sanabria:Gump and I couldn't figure out how to like, get the word run in there.
Josh Sanabria:I almost said forest
Josh Sanabria:like five times, but then I was like, it's not gonna count.
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): Oh, good time.
Josh Sanabria:Well, thank you.
Josh Sanabria:Well, thank you again.
Josh Sanabria:This has been a real, I I've really enjoyed this Good time.
Josh Sanabria:Yeah.
Josh Sanabria:Thank you both.
Josh Sanabria:Thanks for having me.
Josh Sanabria:I appreciate it.
Josh Sanabria:Todd Miller (2): And thank you to our audience for tuning into this
Josh Sanabria:very special episode of Construction Dis Disruption with Joshua Sanabria
Josh Sanabria:of Go Architect and Engage.
Josh Sanabria:Check out what he's doing.
Josh Sanabria:Great work.
Josh Sanabria:please watch for future episodes of our podcast.
Josh Sanabria:We always have great guests.
Josh Sanabria:Don't forget to leave a review on.
Josh Sanabria:Podcasts or thumbs up on YouTube.
Josh Sanabria:until the next time we're together, though, keep on disrupting and
Josh Sanabria:challenging folks, keep on looking for better ways of doing things.
Josh Sanabria:And by all means have a positive impact on everyone you encounter, make them
Josh Sanabria:smile, encourage them simple things we can do that really do change the world.
Josh Sanabria:so God bless and take care of this is Isaiah industry signing off until the
Josh Sanabria:next episode of construction disruption.