Emerging Technology in Construction with Michael Zeppieri

I'm Ryan bell of Isaiah industries, manufacturer

of specialty metal roofing and other building materials.

And today my co host is Ethan Young.

Ethan, how are you doing today?

I'm doing good today, Ryan.

How you doing?

I'm doing great.

It's a beautiful day.

Friday weekends about here.

finally getting hot here.

So it feels like summer is here for once.

Today, our guest is Mike Zeppieri of Skanska.

An industry leader in construction and development that is redefining

safety standards by leveraging emerging technologies, such as AI and robotics.

Mike is a graduate of MIT and West Point, an army veteran,

currently the vice president of Emerging Technology at Skanska.

Mike, first off, thank you for your service.

it's great to have you on the show today.

Yeah, I appreciate you saying that, Ryan.

And thank you for having me on.

Well, let's, jump right into it here.

before we get into the tech side of this discussion, I'd kind of love it.

If you'd tell us a little bit more about yourself first.

I really, I read through your bio on LinkedIn and, and I

really liked it and I, it kind of resonated with me in a lot of ways.

So can you tell our listeners a little bit about you and how someone with

advanced engineering degrees and an MBA also has a passion for the arts

and creativity and why you kind of feel like they compliment each other.

Yeah, absolutely.

Right.

It's a fun place for us to start.

So I would say, and you already covered this in the intro.

There's really three aspects to my personality and on paper, they would

seem to maybe contradict one another.

But I actually find that in throughout my career, they've

complimented them quite well.

And I would say my career path, Hasn't really been linear.

It's been more monkey bars.

So, so my background and just kind of how I'm wired is has actually served me pretty

well, given the path that I've chosen.

So there's obviously the military aspect of my background.

And you know, it's funny, there's been a lot of articles over the last 10, 15

years about how corporate America has shifted from command and control to

like a more decentralized structure.

And you know how there's, I think there's a perception that command and control

is naturally kind of bureaucratic.

It's micromanagement.

It's inefficiency.

You don't get to empower people.

And while some of that is true, I think we in many ways have thrown like the

baby with the bathwater in terms of losing some of the benefits of command

and control, which I learned in the army and greatly appreciate it, which is a

need for predictability, the need for consistency, the need for discipline,

the need for clarity and purpose.

We call that commander's intent.

There was a lot of things I learned in the army about just setting

direction for an organization and actually empowering people.

I mean, there's, I think there's a lot of stereotypes around what happens in the

military in terms of empowering people.

And there's actually a lot of autonomy.

the military wouldn't function, as an organization if it wasn't for autonomy.

So, that part resonated very strongly with me at a very young age.

That need for kind of process, discipline, structure, and I like all those things and

then I think those things allow me to be effective as a leader in a global company.

The engineering mindset, you know, with that comes the discipline of just using

facts and data to evaluate things.

there's a little bit of a structure to the engineering mindset, but I'm also a big

fan of lean thinking and systems thinking.

So the damning cycle of the plan, do check act, you know, a lot of people can do

the planning into doing like, especially in a technology role, it's really

easy to get excited about technology.

It's really easy to go take it out on a job site and play with technology.

I mean, that's fun.

The hard part is the check in the act actually validating that what

you're doing actually achieve value or delivered value to your stakeholders.

So, so that part of definitely part of my, the wiring of my thinking.

But where the artistic side comes in, which was your question,

which one, it surprises people.

So people see my resume, they see Army, MIT, they think, okay, he's a

rigid thinker, he's disciplined, he's structured, he can get things done.

And like, all those things are true.

But then I surprise them when the creative side kind of comes into the equation.

So I'm going to use this moment because I think it's important

to recognize your mentors.

I've had a lot of great mentors in my life, but my artistic

journey started in middle school.

It was with my art teacher.

His name was David Gammonds.

He has since passed, but probably had as much of an impact on me as a

person as my own biological father in terms of kind of shaping my thinking

and kind of view of the world.

And I have a very specific moment that I shared with him that I think

is applicable to this conversation.

So I enjoy painting still lifes, but I was very rigid in my painting.

like I was trying to literally capture everything I was seeing in front of me.

So if I saw a reflection on the surface, that meant I had to throw that

color on the canvas and replicate it.

And as a result, I wasn't achieving realism in my painting.

It was like, it just, it was very stiff looking.

And I actually have a photo of him and I standing together where he was

giving me coaching on my still life.

And the advice he said is when you're trying to achieve realism, don't open

your eyes, squint your eyes, because what you're trying to do is capture

the essence of what you're seeing, not literally replicate everything

you're seeing and it really kind of changed how I approached art and kind

of flush out some of the rigidity in terms of how I was approaching it.

And a couple weeks ago I had the opportunity to bring my family to

Paris from my daughter's spring break.

And both of my daughters are now artists as well.

And we were standing in the Louvre and I said, okay, now stand back and

look at this painting and admire the photo realism of it, but now let's

get close to it and look at the imperfections and the brushstrokes

and you start to see kind of the human element that achieves that perfection,

that it's actually imperfection that's achieving the perfection.

So where I'm going with all this is like the artistic thinking is one in the

artist community, people aren't judged on the merit of their idea, right?

You appreciate art as the reflection of what the artist is trying to convey.

So in an innovation setting, when people bring ideas to me, my engineering mind

doesn't kick in in terms of trying to filter out why it's a bad idea.

I appreciate what they're bringing as the creative process.

And I say, you know what, even if it's not a good idea, even if

it's not aligned to the business.

There's an intent behind it.

Like, what is their artistic intent and what they're trying to convey?

And what I often find is that I learned more from my people and my

coworkers by understanding the intent of what they're doing, like more of

the creativity side of it than like the hard kind of engineering side.

And I think the other thing that, that I have brought in from my creative side is.

like in an engineering kind of world, people are very hesitant

to bring half baked ideas up for feedback from their peers.

Like it's like you want to have something fully baked before

you bring it in for input.

And I'm I am the exact opposite.

Like I really enjoyed the creative process.

My art teacher, Mr Gammond's and even other students like he would

bring other students before the painting was done to provide feedback.

And that makes you very vulnerable.

Sometimes it's hard to receive that feedback, but you don't

get better as an artist.

If you don't receive that feedback around technique around process.

So for me, when I have an idea and it's half baked, I will bring it into a meeting

and I will just throw it on the wall and I've had managers throughout my career,

it gets surprised by that because they, you know, again, the military engineering

side of me, they expect, well, he's going to be only going to have ideas

that are fully baked and I'll bring something in that's half baked and say,

start, let's, here's a piece of clay.

I don't know what I want to do with it, but I think we can make something.

And then like when other people engage.

With me, like that's probably like my favorite moment, like

the innovation process is like that kind of creative process.

So I would say like, that's, I know this is like kind of a long

winded response to your question.

But, like that's how like the artistic creative side of me has

kind of changed how I, I think it made me more effective in like the

innovation and engineering world.

That was a excellent explanation and I'm

glad you went into all that.

I find all that fascinating because I'm kind of the same way.

math was my favorite subject in school.

I was in advanced calculus classes.

I also loved art, but the world tells us that those two things don't go together.

When I went into college, I went into graphic design.

And I wanted to take math classes.

And my counselor was like, the graphic design students don't

take math classes because that's a different side of your brain.

Right.

That's always baffled me and I always thought I was like in a not

weird anomaly that found enjoyment in both, but so it was cool.

I was excited when I read your, your LinkedIn bio and I was like,

cool, I'm going to, I'm going to get along with this guy great.

So thank you for explaining that.

so let's dive into, Skanska a little bit.

What exactly do you guys do and how does it affect the construction industry?

That's a great question.

I, so I liked how you phrased that question.

Like, how does it impact the broader construction industry?

Cause at the end of the day, you want to have, Impact.

I mean, at least for me, it's more than just showing up to

every day and having a job.

So what brought me to Skanska and what I love about Skanska is I've

always wanted, like for me, job fulfillment is always working in a

job where there's a higher purpose.

Like I, I need to work for organizations that have higher purpose.

Like I need to feel like that I have an impact on, on, you know,

society and in the world at large.

and what I love about Skanska is one, because it's a global company.

It's headquartered in Sweden.

It's a global construction company.

So one is, you know, being stationed in Germany and living in Europe for

a number of years when I was in the army, I gained an appreciation for how

European companies live their values.

And what I mean by that is, is, you know, I feel like in Europe they

do a really good job of recognizing the importance of work life balance.

And we're starting to get that in the United States.

I mean, you definitely see it in, you know, especially once, you know, kind

of Silicon Valley came into prominence and the tech industry kind of changed

what corporate America looks like, you know, we're starting to get it in the

United States, but I really appreciate.

the opportunity to work for a company that truly lives its values.

I mean, Skanska puts care for life very high, and take safety very seriously.

We're laser focused on sustainability and, you know, the

climate impact of construction.

I mean, you know, construction has a sizable carbon footprint and we are

a company that recognizes that and has made firm commitments to move

the needle and trying to change that.

Like, that's not just something, it's not a paradigm that we should accept.

Like we, we, as an industry, should be working to move the needle to reduce

our societal and climate impact.

So like we're a company that takes those things very seriously.

We take care of our people.

So it's a company that it's a construction company, but it's a construction company

that's trying to have a societal impact.

you know, and that's that resonates with me.

So that's what brought me to Skanska.

I mean, the other thing that's great about this company is because we are

a global company, we are very diverse in terms of our business units.

So we work in different markets, different market sectors, the nature

of Our business in each of our geographies is slightly different, but

we have a really true, great spirit of collaboration across the business unit.

So being in an innovation role, that's phenomenal because, you know, someone in

Sweden or Finland or the UK or Central Europe could be doing something and while

they may not necessarily be solving the exact problem that I'm trying to solve,

the opportunity to collaborate at a global scale is very, is a very fulfilling

for me personally and very exciting.

So that makes my job a lot of fun is being able to collaborate, you know, at

Global scale, in terms of like my specific function and how we're moving the needle.

so I lead the emerging technology function.

We sit within the strategy function of Skanska's U.

S.

Building business unit.

So within the United States, there's basically three business units.

We've got U.

S.

Building, which is vertical construction, U.

S.

Civil, which is horizontal construction, and then our commercial development,

division, which does what you would expect a developer to do.

So there's there's synergies between the three, but there's

also autonomy between the three.

And even within our business unit, I mean, where you know, U.

S.

Building is in every major metropolitan area up and down the East Coast, you know,

through the south and up the West Coast.

and yet each office is very different in terms of the markets that they

serve in the technology that they need in the scale of technology.

So it's it's very interesting puzzle of trying to kind of service

this very decentralized company.

with very different needs, sitting in a central technology function.

So, so my team, we basically existed, what I would say is the intersection

of the different innovation stream.

So we don't have a department of innovation.

that's actually something that's by design and by intent.

you know, we have learned through our journey as a company is, you know, and as

technology has evolved in construction, that a large central overhead function,

a large central training function, or a large central service function

really doesn't serve the business.

So my team is this very small and mighty group of overachievers that

sit in the middle of all these different innovation streams that are

coming at us from every direction.

It's coming at us from VCs.

It's coming at us from academia.

It's coming at us from startups.

It's coming at us increasingly from our job sites.

you know, I would say 10, 15 years ago, people on job sites weren't

necessarily digital natives or wouldn't necessarily gravitate to

technology, but they are today.

There's not that apprehension of technology and construction

that there was when I came over.

I would say, you know, 10 years ago.

So, you know, innovation coming at us from every direction.

And what my team does is basically evaluates those ideas

or those technologies and say, okay, there's merit to it.

We think this applies to solving a problem.

but then we put it through us and I know you want to talk a little bit

about our innovation process later in which we can get into the details of.

But basically it's does it actually solve a problem?

Does it reduce burden?

Does it increase productivity?

Does it truly add value for our clients?

And so does it pass muster in terms of actually adding value to us as a business?

And then the second question right behind that is, does it scale?

There are some technologies that are point solutions that we will use, kind of in

a very applied, you know, application.

But then there's others that scale enterprise wise that we

embraces as kind of our standard.

So, like, my team basically helps guide that process, make those decisions and

then inform, you know, the investments that we make as a company in technology.

Very good.

let's talk about AI a little bit.

How is Skanska currently utilizing AI to enhance things like project management

and efficiency in construction?

So pretty extensively.

So I have a very, strong opinion about A.

I.

So I should probably give that context before you know, we get into it.

So, so for those of us that have been on the digital transformation journey

since day one, I mean, I'm Gen X.

I remember the world before computers, and how things work before computers.

You know, to me, the A.

I.

conversation is really just is the evolution of digital transformation.

I mean, I remember in the early two thousands, all corporations

were talking about big data.

They recognize that there was value in their data sets and the patterns

and getting to like predictive and prescriptive analytics.

So, so the AI convocation conversation isn't new.

the data conversation isn't new, but the technology is moving at a rapid pace.

So I can't dismiss that AI is a radical leap forward in terms of

moving the needle towards achieving predictive and prescriptive analytics,

but I still see it as an evolution.

I mean, we, as a company had already made an investment in data prior to

generative AI and Chat GPT kind of capturing everyone's, imagination.

So when Chat GPT hit the scene and everyone was suddenly talking about AI,

I kind of saw it through two lenses.

So, so the first lens was like, okay, this is an evolution, like this

is a leap forward, but it's really just a leap forward in chat bots.

It's a leap forward in search.

It's a leap forward in digital assistance.

I mean, we understood the application of these things in our industry, but

the Chat GPT aspect of it, I mean, I think that was It almost came across

to me as like a marketing ploy.

It was like big tech needed the next big thing.

A.

R.

and V.

R.

didn't take off.

The metaverse didn't take off.

You know, Bitcoin didn't take off and crypto like there was like they

tech needed the next big thing.

And suddenly we had this toy, this generative A.

I.

toy that kind of mimicked human interaction where you felt like

you were getting a human response.

through, through, you know, common language queries

of, you know, basic search.

So my initial impression was skepticism.

I'm skeptical of this.

I don't see this.

I see this more as a hype machine and not really necessarily something

that's any different than what we already kind of understood is.

And once the hype kind of fizzles, we're going to land right where we thought

we were going to land in terms of how we were going to apply this technology.

But then I started to play with it, and there was a coolness

factor, and I'm not going to deny there's like that coolness factor.

The first time you do, you kind of prompt AI in fun and interesting ways.

I definitely I would say being given my creative side.

I started playing with the image generators more so than the text

generators, like trying to create, yeah, I'm a big nerd, you know, science

fiction nerds, like, you know, Star Wars, Dune, Tron, all those things.

So like, I've got all these things in my head, like I, so blend those things

and create, I was trying to create a LinkedIn banner for myself to kind

of blend all these things, with an avatar, I'm a shameless metal head.

So it's like I put a metal head, you know, in a technology environment and

with all these different elements.

And at first it was fun and it was a toy, a fun toy to play with.

But then as an artist, I started to say, okay, but the AI is pull

is generating this image because it's pulling from other people's

work.

And I didn't feel good about that, that, okay, so I'm able to now create,

I'm not a talented enough artist to necessarily create the image in my mind.

Now I can let generative AI do it, but it's taking other people's work

and it's not citing their work.

So I didn't feel good about that as an, as a someone who appreciates art, And

the other thing was is there's there's kind of a mediocrity to what it creates.

I mean, if you look at like a lot of the A.

I.

Images and stuff like you could tell their A.

I.

generated.

I'm sure we're gonna get to a point where that's not the case, but it's almost

getting to, I would say, there's like a sameness to the images that people create

because it's kind of pulling from the same archive of information and as the

patterns generating what it pulls from.

So I started to say, Okay, A.

I.

Is allowing me to create things I couldn't create before.

Which is kind of cool, but there's a mediocrity to what it's creating.

So then I like my second kind of impression of it was kind of this guilt

of, you know, the, I would think just the ethics of pulling from other people's work

and not being able to cite it where I am now is using it as a digital assistant.

So there's some applications that I have found it to be helpful.

And I think that's where we're going to land.

So like the more of the mundane tasks, the things that I would do if I had

time, but I don't have time, but.

But where my thinking isn't on that is, okay, so let's take meeting

transcription as an example, right?

We're all in meetings.

we've, we sometimes missed the opportunity to capture what was discussed in the

meeting, action items, critical things that people said, like, we're just,

we're not taking notes fast enough because we're all jumping to the next

meeting and we don't have time to pause at the end of the meeting to

actually document what we discussed.

So AI seems like this magical, what a great magical solution

to solve that problem.

But then I think, What's the root cause of that problem?

The digital transformation and the digital age is in many

ways buried us in information.

And now we almost need technology to unbury us from the pile of

things that, that, that have been piled on us by technology.

So is it a net gain?

is it, do I want to apply AI because I don't have time to actually

be more thoughtful in meetings because I'm worrying about the next

meeting isn't the better solution to maybe have less meetings.

It's like, like you're moving a pile of dirt.

So I moved the pile of dirt from here to here.

But have I actually really achieved anything?

If I haven't graded it so I can seed it, I haven't really moved the needle.

So, so that's kind of where I am at.

And I think, but that's my personal opinion.

Now, where we are as a company, though, is because we were on a data journey.

We were able to take this disruption in stride.

So we do have generative AI internal capabilities that people are using.

And I would say, you know, given feedback that we've heard from our employees

there, they're on a very similar journey.

there's some who are skeptical.

There are some who are finding applied uses like digital assistant

that they find to be very useful.

And then there's some that have concerns, about the technology, the ethics of it.

Privacy concerns.

you know, which I think are not unwarranted.

So, so where we are as a company is we've embraced the technology.

We've taken into stride.

I don't know that we've given into the hype of it, but we're

also seeing some promise.

so we're, I think we're on the journey of evaluating it.

We haven't dismissed it.

but we haven't gone all in on it.

I think we're being very pragmatic about what AI can do.

You know what blows my mind is that the image generators

can't get text right yet.

No, or four fingers.

You get like six fingers.

Yeah,

they really can produce some pretty cool stuff, but, and as a

creative, you know, that's what I went to the image generators first instead of

chat GPT, but, And just really, I spent a lot of time just putting stuff in there.

What can I make?

What, you know, and as a creative, it helps my thought process.

But again, the ethics of it and stealing other people's

work is certainly concerning.

And Adobe just had, there was some drama around Adobe

updating their terms and conditions, here recently where it.

Left a lot of creatives thinking that what they are going to create

in their programs now is going to be read and looked at by Adobe's, Firefly

and used across their applications.

So definitely interesting.

and something that I think we're going to be living with for a while.

Uh, can you share any examples of how AI is being used to improve

safety and risk management on, on your construction sites or job sites?

Absolutely.

So we're, I mean, that's one of the areas where heavily, investing in.

you know, the classic or the, I think the well known application is

catching the safety incident in the moment so that you can respond to it.

So an example of that is making sure, you know, because safety is very

important to Skanska, making sure that people are wearing their PPE properly.

So we have site cameras that's capturing, you know, imagery, you know, continuously.

We're looking at how do we take that imagery, and pass it through an A I

kind of, you know, way of evaluating that to catch incidents in the moment.

But, the limitation that we're finding is that's good capturing

the incident in the moment.

but there's other implications when you start thinking more kind of

holistically in terms of like a data mindset or a systems mindset is are

there additional applications of that data that would be of value.

So you capture the incident in the moment, but what if there's a pattern around

that particular individual over time?

What if that person is repeatedly not wearing their PPE?

So now you have a systemic problem around that individual and

there's different things that you would want to do to engage that.

Maybe they need training.

Maybe you need to go talk to that sub.

You need to address that, right?

Because now it's a systemic problem.

But what if that systemic problem extends to the sub itself?

It's not just their employee.

What if it's their crews?

And that's a systemic problem.

So, so you're capturing a safety incident here, around that, but how does that

then feed into subcontractor selection of pre qualification over there?

Like there's value to the data you're capturing around safety here, which

should inform how you want to work with that sub in the future because we

work with the same subs over and again.

and I'm not using this as a specific example to call out an incident

that to say that this has happened with any particular sub, but

hypothetically it could happen, right?

So you so you're capturing data in the moment, but there's value to that data

in terms of the patterns and the usage.

So that's how we're thinking about AI is capturing the data in the moment

is good, capturing patterns and then relating that to data to other things

that give us a broader view is better.

And, you know, so that's how we're kind of thinking about it.

Let's dive into kind of the emerging technologies side of

things that, that you guys look at and invest in what's some criteria

that you use or what's that decision making process look like for you guys?

So, my, my boss sent me a podcast and I'm not recalling

the name of it, right now, but I can, I'll send it to you if you want

to rerecord it or capture it later.

But it was about innovation through reduction and that podcast really

resonated with me because you take any innovation brainstorming process.

You bring a group of people today together to brainstorm around innovation.

It tends to be additive.

And I wish I could cite the podcast because this wasn't my thought,

but it really resonated with me.

So that's why I'm sharing it.

It's, you're in a room and when you talk about innovation and process improvement,

although it's always additive, what are the things that we can do, like we should

do this and we should do that and we should do, and then the pile starts, keeps

getting bigger and bigger and additive.

But when you think about innovation in terms of productivity and

what we're trying to achieve in construction, it really needs to be.

Reductive.

I mean, we need to reduce the burden on our people, on our job sites to

really move the needle on productivity.

And just so we're starting to look at innovation through the lens of

burden and reduction, because one of the things that we're hearing

loud and clear from our job sites is that, they're hitting app fatigue.

There's too many tools.

There's too many solutions.

And I think where construction is different from manufacturing, where I

had spent a fair amount of my career is manufacturing, there's the whole nature

of production systems and assembly lines.

Like they, they were transformed, you know, the moment that Henry Ford

had the idea of the moving assembly line, and then was refined by the

Japanese through, through Taichi Ono and others with the Toyota

production system and lean thinking.

That works in manufacturing because it's repetitive and it's in a

controlled environment, but construction is not a controlled environment.

We, buildings don't come off of assembly lines.

So when you think about the scaling of technology on a construction job

site, if I were to snap the line right now across our company, all of our

job sites are at different phases.

Some are doing site work, some are doing logistics planning, some are fitting

out, some are about to close out.

And if you think about the duration of how long it takes to build a job,

most jobs are over multiple years.

Project teams are on this kind of journey with their client to

build what we built for them.

So let's say we introduce a new technology that we're trying to

scale, but it's applied at one phase of the construction process.

In any given moment, if I were to train people in the use of that technology,

we're not universally benefiting from it across the entire enterprise.

There's only a percentage of jobs that are actually in that moment.

But if you think about training, you typically want to train everyone at once.

So let's say I choose to train a project team on how to fly

a drone to do site logistics planning, but they're in fit out.

They're not going to be able to apply that learning in the moment on the job, on the

workflow that they're actually working on.

So it's going to be out of sight out of mind, you know, one week after

they've done it and we're gonna have to retrain them or revisit it.

So, so scaling technology in construction, it's kind of tricky that way and why

it's different than manufacturing.

So, so our thinking around technology is when we think about it is

really about reducing that burden.

How do we reduce the burden?

Making sure that it's not additive to that burden and also measuring

values to the other because we don't self perform a lot of work.

A lot of these technologies that the people who are actually going to

benefit from the productivity gains of the robots and a lot of these other

technologies, is not us necessarily.

it's it's the subs.

It's the trades, you know, so for us, it's less about us adopting the

technology and more about finding the right incentives for them.

to adopt the technology.

And I'll give you a very specific example.

So we're doing a lot of testing with site layout robots.

We have validated the use case that a site layout robot, can get to a more accurate

site layout, in a fraction of the time that it would take a human to do it.

So we validated the use case.

The technology works.

The problem is how does the technology fit into the broader landscape

of just how a job site functions?

So there's a lot of prep work in BIM and VDC to make the site layout work.

So who's going to absorb that cost and that labor and all the prep work?

Now, there are jobs in some geographies I mentioned, like, we have a lot of

disparity in terms of our markets and our, you know, all of our different offices,

service, different market sectors, different complexity, different clients.

So in some of our larger metropolitan areas where there's mega jobs, we have the

staffing to actually do that prep work.

There's people that have that skill set and the clients see value in it or want

to go play in that sandbox with us.

Absolutely.

We'll do it there and we can do it there, but I can't necessarily replicate that

on a smaller job in a geography where that may not necessarily be the case.

So, you know, when we think about technology, it goes back to the whole

plan, do check act thing, making it work in validating the value isn't enough.

It's validating the value, but then also saying, once you validated

the value, who realizes that value?

And then if you realize that value, if you look at it holistically, is

it actually creating a net benefit?

And then if it does create a net benefit of someone to pay for that.

So it's just so when we think through innovation, we're thinking through those

follow up questions around scalability.

yeah, we get this.

I had a really interesting conversation with someone who was part of our extended

network who said to me that he would love to see more kind of enthusiasm, for

technology and curiosity for technology.

Like, could we as a company be more enthusiastic and curious?

And that's important.

Like, that's the first step.

Like, you absolutely need to have a curiosity around innovation.

a willingness to try new things.

But there's also I think sometimes a confirmation bias in people who

kind of gravitate to technology.

It's like I like technology.

I'm gonna go test the technology, testing the technology,

validated that I like technology.

But we have to ask those hard follow up questions.

Does it scale?

Does it align with our business?

You know, can we deploy it as a service or people want to pay for it so that

so we built the process to kind of structure that and ask those questions.

I can't say we've perfected it, but people are starting to gravitate to

it and they like it because they're like it kind of goes back to where

we started with kind of the different aspects of how I operate personally.

It provides enough discipline and structure and process that we can

scale, but it also gives enough room for autonomy and creativity so that we

actually truly are harnessing innovation.

from our people in the field.

And I'm really proud of our team that we have been able to build

something that strikes that balance.

And like I said, people are people typically look at process, especially

when you try to impose process innovation.

They see it as a blocker, not an enabler.

It's innovation.

They try to find ways around it.

And what we're finding is people are increasingly gravitating towards

it, which is probably the best, I think, metric that it's working.

Is it perfect?

No.

Do we still hit obstacles and frustrations?

Absolutely.

But, I'm really proud of where we are as a team and what we've done with it.

So explain to me what a site layout robot is.

Like, I want to go type that into mid journey and see what it gives me.

But what, what exactly is that?

I don't know.

That's a good question.

So most construction jobs at some point, it's just a concrete slab.

Like you get to a phase of construction where you're just

looking at concrete slabs.

And at some point, You have to figure out where the different penetrations

are going to be because you've got, you know, mechanical, electrical, plumbing,

things that are coming through floors.

You've got walls that are going to be erected.

You know, you've got carpentry that's going to be done.

You know, there's a variety of tasks of like basically, you know, think

about, if you've ever built a Lego set, you know, the steps, those

initial steps, like you've got the kind of the slab, the base plate.

And you're starting to put those initial blocks down, which are the foundation upon

which everything else is going to build.

And then eventually you have walls and you have partitions and you have,

piping and you have utilities and all of these things that kind of go through.

So, so layout is the process of literally using chalk lines to create

the lines that, that, you know, so if you look at a set of drawings, a set

of drawings, you know, engineering drawings, architecture drawings, they

tell you where all those things are going to be dimensionally accurate,

because there's tolerances for all those things when you're building a building.

So, someone has to provide guidelines to help the people that are going to

build those things to know where to install the wall, where to put the

penetration, where to drill the hole.

So, that's what site layout does is it's through chalk lines and you know,

with intolerance of the precision, lays everything out for you, you know,

tells you where to put the Lego bricks.

That is a time intensive process to do manually and just the nature of even

just snapping the chalk line, you lose a little bit of accuracy just through the

means and methods of doing that manually.

So, the, so the idea of site layout.

It's think about putting a printer on a set of wheels that's talking to

a station that tells it where it is, you know, it geolocates it and it's

telling the robot, drive along this and as you're driving, paint the line.

So instead of doing the chalk line, it's painting the lines for you.

And what's cool about the robots is they can do other things like add annotations.

They can add QR codes, which allow you to then link to other

things, like if you want to pull in other contextual information.

So, so the site layout is actually a very intriguing.

use case for us because it allows us to do these other things.

It ensures accuracy.

It's less time consuming than doing it manually.

but the question is, we don't self perform that.

So there's like the questions we have to ask about the site layout is okay,

so I don't self perform site layout.

I'm paying a sub to do that.

Well, when I signed a contract with the sub to perform that

scope isn't quality expected.

So do I really care how they get there?

I'm paying for the quality.

And if there isn't the quality, then there's a means to claims and other things

to get, you know, compensation for that.

But then the other question is don't we want them to achieve first time quality?

So don't we want the site layout companies, rather than dismiss it as

taking away a human job, recognizing that you still need the expertise of

what it takes to do a good site layout.

So we haven't replaced the human, but could the robot augment the human to

ensure that when they are on site.

the quality of their work.

They're achieving first time quality the first time.

we all know that there's a resource constraining construction.

We don't have enough people in the trades.

So does this allow the trade partners to actually increase their bandwidth?

Because now you're augmenting the human with the robot.

So instead of taking them three days to do a layout, they can do it in an hour.

but you also have to think about it in terms of the value chain.

So that all sounds good on paper.

And that's, you know, you talk to any of the site layout

companies, that's the use case.

They will tell you like, they'll tell you that's the value.

But you also have to recognize that there's a lot of prep work

that has to go into making sure that the robot knows where to go

and knows where to print the line.

So if you're willing and able to do the prep work and you're willing and able

to compel the subs to see the value in embracing the robot, then you have a path

to realize value with the technology.

Very good.

Thank you for painting that picture for me.

I what it is now.

Very well explained.

What about, uh, VR and AR?

you guys doing anything with that on your projects?

What are your thoughts on those technologies?

We are.

So this kind of goes to my comment on scale.

So they have a place in our industry, but I don't see a world where those devices

are universally kind of ubiquitous.

You know, the same as like an iPhone is like, I don't think they're

ever going to achieve ubiquity.

I think they're always, they have a place.

But if I go to my desk right now, you know, we have our grave, like in our

cubicle row, we have a kind of a graveyard of like technology that didn't work.

And most of the stuff that's sitting in that pile is a AR and VR devices.

The reason being is, one is the pace of the technology.

So the obsolescence of that technology is moving, I mean, that

tech is just moving very quickly.

you know, so there's just the form factor.

I mean, where augmented reality goggles were even like three years ago.

What I mean by that is like the, so the weight of the battery pack and where

it sits, I mean, like the technology is evolving, like the early iterations,

like you would feel the heat of the battery pack because it was sitting on

your head and it had a weight to it.

So it would kind of tilt your head and it was very uncomfortable.

So They weren't really practical devices for long duration use.

But the technology has moved very rapidly.

So we're not yet to the point where like, this is my AR device, like,

like where, like, as unobstructed as a pair of like reading glasses,

eventually we'll get there.

But until we're at that form factor, I don't think you're going to see it being

used universally, but there are use cases where we have found it useful, but it goes

right back to the site layout example.

The conditions have to be like the stars have to align, the

conditions have to be ripe for the application of those technologies.

So so an example of where AR we are finding to be very useful

is when you have high density M.

E.

P.

configurations and you're trying to coordinate around those.

So, so, so think about, you know, any industrial space where you have exposed

ceilings and you can see the pipes and the ducks and all the different runs of the M.

E.

P.

utilities.

There's some that literally all kind of sit on like one or two dimensions.

There's not a lot of complexity.

I mean, you might look at it in question.

Well, why did they move that duck around that pipe?

Like that didn't seem efficient.

And that's kind of the nature of construction is things come together in

the field, you know, when you coordinate things, but by and large, like most

jobs, like the office I'm in right now, I'm looking at our exposed ceilings.

I don't need AR to coordinate that.

They can do that with the BIM model.

with somebody kind of navigating on a screen, you know, driving

it and kind of guiding people to kind of talk through that.

But what we have found is that for really complex stacks where there's a

lot of density, having somebody drive.

And kind of try to find the view that's helpful to everyone isn't as useful as

putting them all in an AR or even a VR experience like that's actually more

intuitive interface for navigating a 3D environment because they could put

their head kind of literally like see what they would want to see if they

were getting on a ladder and doing it themselves like it's just more of like

a kind of intuitive UI for kind of experiencing space and interpreting space.

So for those use cases, we're seeing a lot of value.

The other, use case where it's kind of a, we're not sure if it's going

to be AI or AR that's going to solve it, but it's really ensuring

the quality of installed work.

So making sure that what's built actually matches up with the drawing.

So for progression tracking, for quality checks.

Like there's the idea of like projecting the model on what you're seeing in front

of you to ensure that what was built is lining up with what was planned.

So like we've had applications where that works very well

and people seem to like that.

But on the other end of the spectrum, so like that's in like the built environment.

But on the other end of the spectrum where we're seeing a lot of value

is also on informing design.

So so think about and it's not for every market sector.

But when you think about fitting out of space and like the classic example

is let's say an operating room.

Doctors and nurses have a very specific, they understand the space

and what that space has to do for them.

Like they know where the operating table is.

They want, they know where the lamp is.

They understand the different things that the plug into the air

and the water and all the different things that are along the wall.

And I'm not a doctor, so I can't speak in like specificity around all

those things, but a doctor or a nurse knows how that layout should be.

I mean, like even think about, something you're building for

yourself, like, like cooking.

You have a process, right?

You have a preferred way of like how you prep the ingredients, how

you cook things if, you know, you know, so, so same with like a doctor.

So, so using like VR, if you put them in the space and you show them the design,

here I, as the architect or the designer or the engineer, this is what you told

me the requirement was, which typically is articulated in text and documents.

But now you're seeing, you're seeing physically seeing

what it's going to look like.

And you can receive feedback from the people who are going to use the space.

We say, you know what?

If you put the table over there, that's actually a problem because I can't

get to it from this side when I hook up this, or I'm going to be bringing

in additional devices on carts that you don't see in the design because

they're not physically part of like your process, but we have all this additional

equipment that I'm going to bring in.

Where am I going to put it?

So, so using VR, as part of like the design process and the fit out process.

We're similarly finding it to be, very beneficial because if

you think about that, right?

So at the end of the day, you ultimately wanna build a space that

the owner needs, and eventually those things are gonna flush out.

The last thing you wanna do is build a space and then have a client come

in and say, well, that's wrong, or that's not what we thought.

'cause now you're talking about rework.

So, so there's a value to being proactive and it's, it really,

it's the translation of, like in manufacturing they do this very well,

like designed for manufacturing.

Like, so when you design something that's gonna be built.

The people who are actually going to be on the shop floor or understand

the manufacturing process have an opportunity to influence the design so

that the thing that you're designing can actually be built at scale.

We're getting smarter about design for constructability.

So, so can we use technology to prevent rework downstream?

So there's an investment we need to make upstream in terms of data, in terms of

information, in terms of partnership, and even contractually how we engage.

you know, with our partners, you know, there's contractual

implications, just how construction is done that create limitations

that don't exist in manufacturing.

But I mean, that's honestly where I am most excited about technology and

this kind of goes to my lean thinking.

I see a lot of the technology that's coming out now, particularly the

startups, is they gravitate to a problem that they see and they're

trying to solve the problem.

But the problem that they're solving is inherently inefficient.

It's inherently wasteful.

So what we're doing is we're using technology to get better at doing

something that's inherently wasteful.

If we just move upstream in the value chain and get to the root cause of

why that thing is so wasteful, could we use technology to prevent it?

So now I'm not, I'm not spending more money later to

fix things or to rework things.

I'm, it's cause I did it's that whole go slower to go faster kind of paradigm.

I'm moving upstream, spending more time in coordination.

And I think that's where the data BIM VDC AI thing is really going to move the

needle on construction is if we can get better and smarter around constructability

and planning, then everything downstream is becomes very fluid.

and then you'll appreciate this.

you know, given your background, Ryan, in, in kind of prefabrication,

it opens up the door for now moving more of the construction process

into a controlled environment.

So if I'm doing the planning up front and I'm coordinating things up front,

I am now finding opportunities.

I'm never going to be able to get a building to come off of a job site, but I

can get components of a job site to come off of a, of assembly line MEP stacks.

you know, wall assemblies, things like that.

So, so that's why I'd love the industry to get to.

and I think that's, I mean, like with that's going to be our Henry Ford moment.

Like, we, like, we have not had.

Um, like one of my, I told my coworker, Mark Moore, who sits here in Boston,

that I would use this quote in a podcast.

He has this great quote that I love that he says that, um,

construction is an unbroken line since the days of the pyramids.

And he's not wrong.

Like, we have not had that, like, if you think about manufacturing used

to be a craft industry, the same as construction, but it had that

transformational moment the industrial revolution was the catalyst for it.

but.

They had that moment, you know, the Henry Ford, the Taichi Ono,

the moment where somebody radically transformed manufacturing.

We haven't had, we haven't had that moment in construction yet.

but I think data, AI, some of these other technologies, if we move it

upstream, I think that will get us there.

Are you guys do anything special or specific to address the

skills gap or the labor shortage in the construction industry?

We are, and it's through a number of different, channels.

And so this is a topic that I'm, I'm particularly passionate about.

and I have a very strong opinion on it.

So, so, and this is because I come from an immigrant family.

So, so, you know, my, my grandparents came off a boat from Italy.

They weren't college educated.

And, you know, so my family story is weaved through the

trades of New York City.

So, and I have a lot of kind of pride, like when we, you know, my dad, I remember

as a kid, like we'd be going down to New York for the Rangers game and on

our way down to Madison Square Garden.

You know,, your grandfather worked on that.

Your uncle worked on that.

Like there's a pride.

Of being part of like the American journey, but also I think a pride of

being in the trades Like I remember like the community that I grew up

in New York Not a lot of the moms and dads had white collar jobs.

People were plumbers.

They were electricians They were carpenters they were and like that was

the foundation of the middle class.

So I feel like at some point in pushing everyone to get college degrees.

I mean, technology kind of created this suddenly this

opportunity for work life balance.

And, you know, I'm a hypocrite in some extent, right?

Because I'm in a white collar job.

I mean, I'm not on the job site every day.

Although the army was like that, I think that's what attracted me to the army.

And I do.

I do miss that, like, just the energy of just being out in the

field, doing things with your hands.

I mean, I enjoy that personally and I get a lot of fulfillment from that.

So, so to me it's like we lost our way pushing everyone to get college

degrees and diminishing the importance of people in the trades and even the

fulfillment that you get from the trades.

But also you have to look at, construction does not have great work life balance.

I mean, there's a reason why people have also gravitated to office jobs is because,

you know, it's nice to be able to get home in time for your kid's soccer game.

I coach my daughters in soccer.

I probably wouldn't be able to do that if I was out on a job site.

I mean, it's like we have put an increasing burden on our

construction, people out in the field.

The days are getting longer, the timelines and the expectations around

what it takes to build something have been compressed, it's putting a

tremendous amount of pressure and people just as a result, people just aren't

attracted to construction anymore.

So.

But I think there's still a lot of fulfillment to it.

I mean, I, you know, construction is still the last of the great trade industries.

You know, you can't outsource it.

It has to be done here on site.

you know, I think it kind of weaves into the whole kind of, you know,

kind of migrant conversation.

I mean, our, like the construction trades have always been, that's where migrants,

I mean, the whole kind of immigration, you know, journey of America and the melting

pot is largely driven through the trade.

So like, I see the trade as the pipeline of solving, not just construction.

challenges, but also broader societal challenges.

I have a great deal of passion about attracting people to construction.

So, but how do you do that?

How do you get kids like my kids, right?

Who have had devices in front of their faces from the day they were

born and like to sit, you know, they don't go outside and play and kick the

soccer ball around like I used to do.

They forced them to do that.

They gravitate to the technology.

How do you get people that are now digital natives and live in a digital

world to get excited about construction.

And I think that's where technology might be able to help us.

So augment them with robots, augment them with drones.

Like suddenly there's an excitement to technology.

Like there's a technology aspect to building things in construction.

that I think is very enticing.

So that's like that.

That's the first thing.

And we're and you know, we're exploring that as a company.

you know, through communities, through, through trade partnership,

through trade mentoring.

how do we do that?

So that's the first avenue.

The second Avenue, and this is something we're very passionate about as a

company is how do we improve the quality of life for construction workers?

How do we reduce the burden, the physical burden and toll of construction?

I mean, if you look at the opioid crisis, the suicide epidemic in construction,

a lot of that is attributed to the work life balance implications, but also

just the physical toll of construction.

you know, I mean, I don't know if either of you have done any, you know, overhead

work for any extended period of time, but I mean, it blows out your shoulders.

It blows out your upper back.

It has implications.

So, so that's where technology can help us.

You know, so instead of putting somebody on a scissor list, scissor lift and

they're doing overhead work all day.

could we use exoskeletons to reduce that burden?

Could we have robots perform that work?

You're not taking the human out of the equation, but you're augmenting them to

reduce the physical toll on their body.

So that, that excites me.

The other thing is creating pipelines into construction for

our underserved communities.

Like I'm, I am very passionate about helping veterans find

paths into construction.

I think construction is a wonderful place for veterans.

One is because there's a similarity and familiarity.

you know, being out on a job site and working with superintendents, is like

being with the platoon and working with a great non commissioned officer.

I mean, there's so many parallels between the culture of the military and

the culture of a construction job site.

I mean, at the end of the day, both are about, you know, performing under, high

stress situations and managing risk.

you know, so I'm very passionate about helping veterans find,

places in construction.

So they, and in our companies as well, I mean, actually, I

purposely wore this shirt today.

You can see it like we, this is a patch that they created for all the veterans.

they sent this out on Veterans Day, the shirts, all the Skanska

employees that are, veterans.

And like, we're very appreciative of that.

like we do a very good job through our diversity inclusion efforts.

to not just do that, but also we mentor, you know, trade partners that

are owned by underserved communities.

So, so women, minorities, you know, increasingly, people who are not

English as, you know, their native language or their first language.

for their first language.

you're finding ways to make sure that those people have a place,

to find paths, you know, rewarding construction paths in construction.

So we do a lot of work through mentoring trade partners, we have a number of

different programs that we do for that.

I've personally, actually taught classes that we've given to some of our

minority and women owned, businesses.

And it's such a great opportunity to kind of give back to the

communities we serve in.

And also kind of expand the bench.

because like a lot of the talent and a lot of the capability, that

we need for our industry, like resides in those Communities.

So we would be negligent, not to tap into the diversity of that to

kind of solve the resourcing issue.

And then lastly, you know, we're doing a lot in recognition of, you know, making

construction more approachable for women.

I mean, if you look at any of the trades, they're still predominantly men.

And if you think about the, what are the things that are barriers

for women to work in construction?

Like I, I become more in tune to this because both of my daughters

are pretty serious athletes.

Like most of the athletic equipment that they use for soccer, for

lacrosse, for basketball, it's designed for the male body.

It's not designed for women's bodies.

And there's actually articles right now, there's like an epidemic of

college level female athletes that are suffering from meniscus injuries

and they don't know they don't.

There's this pattern of female athletes when they hit a level of intensity in

terms of their training and their play.

They're all suffering these need knee injuries and there hasn't been

enough research in this, which is unfortunate to solve the problem.

But I think the hypothesis is that it's because the shoes that they

wear and the equipment is just not reflective of their bodies.

and my daughter is actually dealing with some knee injuries right now

and it's, and I guarantee you that's probably part of the equation.

So like we're partnering with vendors that are designing work boots for

women where we're partnering with companies that are creating PPE that

actually conform to a woman's body that accommodates them when they're, pregnant.

So that they can continue to be on a job site and wear PPE and wear it in

a way that's not discomfort to them and then solving, the broader problem

is like the burden of motherhood, largely falls on working mothers.

It's it's but job sites require people on site like so, so how do you create an

environment on a job site where someone could choose to be a field construction

worker and also choose to be a mother, you know, because mother still kind of

bear the burden of childcare and all those things, and how do you create

programs that accommodate for that?

So like we're looking at all those things of the company and it's like that's what

makes me proud to work for this company is because and trying to solve the workforce

Problem, we're not just kind of looking at technology as a way to replace or fill

that void, we're looking at can we use technology and innovation to augment our

workers and bring more people make it more of a people conversation and not a

technology conversation, so And if I'm rambling on this for a long time, it's

because I'm very passionate about it.

And I'm actually very proud of what our company is doing in this space.

Well, you should be.

Yeah, you should be.

I was going to say, it kind of ties back, obviously not quite the

same, but when you made that earlier point about AI, like going back to the root of

the problem instead of trying to just kind of put a band aid fix on it, you know?

Same thing you're talking about here, just how can we look at this from a

holistic view and see like, what can we do to improve in these different areas?

Not just, well, let's just automate this or, you know, use the robots here.

So I think that's definitely in line with what you were saying earlier.

yeah, I mean, it's really about being, I mean, it really

comes down to being like very inclusive.

It's like you, you know, you're planning a meeting and you

fail to kind of accommodate for vegetarians like in the menu.

So, I mean, it's like it's thinking about everyone that's going to be

in the room, and in trying to make a kind of thinking, you know, thinking

about everyone in the room and also thinking about who's not in the room.

I would say, like, that's like where we have really moved the needle on

innovation is the people that care about innovation will gravitate to it.

But then you get a little bit of group think it's sometimes you have to pause and

think who's not in the room and I would say we've gotten the best outcomes when

we bring in the people who typically are not in the room and get their perspective

because it's it's really kind of expanded our thinking around how we solve problems

for our company and as an industry.

Well, thanks so much, Mike.

This has been great.

We're really thankful for the time we've had with you today and

everything you've shared with us.

We're close to wrapping up what we call the business end of things.

Is there anything that we haven't covered yet today that you would

like to share with our audience?

Yeah, I actually Ryan where we started, which is, you

know, my appreciation of your, you know, your stack behind you and your

are kind of shared love for music.

So there was a, like another analogy I wanted to use around, like, kind

of how I think about technology and it's very centric to music.

So my parents were both shameless hippies.

In the sixties, they, I think their first date was they went to, the

Woodstock documentary, the movie.

So like, like, like my parents, have seen the Rolling Stones and at their

peak, the Beatles, Cream, like, like all those bands, like my dad's

a huge Clapton fan, Beatles fan.

So I grew up around music and my dad, didn't have a lot of money, but the one

thing my father always would invest in.

Was a good audio setup.

Like he, he had the, like the full stack and the speakers.

And when cassettes came into, to being, and we started going on road trips as

a family and we, and they had their first cassette player in the car.

My job was to create the playlists for our family trips.

So I would literally record from the vinyl to the cassettes and

why I'm sharing this is like with physical media, it wasn't just about

creating the playlist like that.

There's something like, as I'm telling this story, like, like I can just

like in a matter of seconds do that digitally today, but it was, and there

was imperfections in like the recordings and you'd get the pops but yet going

through that journey because I couldn't digitally skip around very easily.

Is it forced me to kind of experience the albums as they were designed and intended

by the audience, I mean, by the artist.

And as I sat on the floor listening to music, I would open up the cover and I

would read the liner notes and I would explore other aspects of what the artist

was trying to convey through the music.

And I got very interested in like the art, like the album covers.

I love album covers.

I, and I miss the days of when you could open up the cover and kind of flip

through and like have this experience.

It wasn't just about the music, there was an experience.

And I similarly kind of miss going to record stores and that there was like,

they typically, musicians were the people that work there and you'd find someone

that worked there that shared your interests and you'd spend the Friday night

with them kind of exposing you to new, like, that's how I discovered most of the

bands that I love today, was on a Friday night hanging out in a record store with

some dude that played in a band and was passionate about the same music I was.

So yeah, so we moved everything digital, right?

we've got the convenience.

I can create a playlist in a moment.

I certainly could search and maybe experience genres, you

know, from across the globe.

So I mean, digital has opened up some things, but we've lost something too.

Like I feel like we've lost like that human connection, like that, that

the joy of discovery and exploration.

Like they're always, there's the urgency that technology brings, right?

the, like the speed of being able to do something quickly so I can get to the

next thing that you lost, you lose the opportunity to kind of savor the moment.

and how I kind of apply that to like my role in a corporate function is like,

so let's apply that to data, right?

It's very easy for me to now pull together a whole bunch of spreadsheets, model

it in Power BI and visualize the data.

But there was something about.

the journey of discovery back in the day when you had to manually tabulate the

data and explore the data at a slower pace as you started to see things that

you just don't see when you're moving at a rapid pace that technology enables.

So there's that, I guess where I'm going with all of this is while like

productivity always seems to build a selling point for technology.

And I think that we laser focus on productivity, the ability to churn

things out and it kind of goes back to maybe my earlier comment about the

mediocrity of like what AI produces.

is there's something about the journey?

there's value in the journey.

It's not just about the productivity.

Like, so for me, it's how I kind of overcome that is like understanding

the intent of why you're doing what you're doing with the technology.

What's the problem that you're trying to solve?

How does it add value?

How does it fit together in the bigger picture?

And I think we lose sight of those things, but they're so important

because I think you don't get to like true learning and really, I think

fulfillment from technology, if you don't take the pause, the kind of saver.

like you would an album back on the day.

So I'll end there.

I thought that was a fun place to

That

Was excellent.

Great analogy.

Thank you.

I think that's an interesting microcosm of like how technology has

changed how we interact and stuff.

Like, even like you said about making a playlist, like, and giving it to

somebody or like having it for, you know, like nowadays, if I want to make

a place, I just go on Spotify and make it in like two minutes, you know, it'll

have like, Oh, you like this song, put it in the playlist, blah, blah, blah.

And you can do it super fast.

And you know, you can just, there's a share button right there.

You can share with whoever instantly.

It's not the same as like, I don't know.

I was too young for cassettes, but like I had CDs, so I kind of

get that, but yeah, it's kind of a different thing right and like even

the Like you said like discovering it.

It's that's a lot of that's based on an algorithm now.

It's not you know.

Oh, hey, let me talk to this guy next to me in the mosh pit or whatever at

the concert Who else do you like it's?

Okay, i'll just you know, this is the next recommended song.

Okay, here we go You know, I think it's an interesting reflection of

how we've changed around technology and maybe how it's changed us.

Yeah, very well put Ethan.

Well, before we close out here, I have to ask if you would like to participate

in a little game we like to play at the end here called rapid fire.

We have seven rapid fire questions, some of them are serious.

The majority are a little funny, I believe.

all you gotta do is give a quick response to each question.

Are you up for the challenge?

All right, let's do it

All right, Ethan and I will alternate asking question.

Do you want to start us off, Ethan?

Yeah, I can be the first one.

what's a hidden talent that you have?

If you have a hidden,

Well, then we talked about the artist thing So a

lot of people don't know that about me But that's to most that's a hidden

talent that they don't know that I have.

It's a good one.

Question two.

What's the strangest thing you believed as a child?

Oh, that's a good one what is the strangest

thing that I believed we'll have to go back to that one.

I can nothing comes top of mind, but I know there was definitely some

strange things I believe there's a kid we'll have to go back to that one.

Okay, I'll do the next one then.

I guess we already shared one, but could you share like a pivotal

moment in your life that kind of changed who you are today?

Yeah, there's been, there's been a couple.

I would say the moment that kind of really broadened, kind of my, my, I would say,

the significance that I put on like the diversity inclusion conversation is so,

so, you know, as a man coming, you know, we go kind of exploring and navigating

life as a man, you kind of lose sight of, perspectives and you don't have to, you

know, I don't think you recognize, how things are kind of aligned in a way to

kind of further your journey as a man.

And like, you don't really gain an appreciation for what women deal

with until like you kind of really experienced things through their eyes.

And my wife, so Ryan, she's a graphic designer.

She's an artist too.

She's a very talented graphic designer.

you know, we, we hit a point in our, on our journey as a couple where, you know,

where we were trying to get pregnant, you know, the company that she worked

for knew that they were downsizing and she was kind of pushed out of the

workforce as a result, she was laid off.

And, and, you know, and then you have kids and you have to accommodate

childcare and then global pandemic.

So it's been this kind of series of events that have prevented her, from

being able to get back into the workforce.

I mean, she's she's college educated.

She has more talent than I do in many ways.

but yet there's barriers and I don't know that I truly appreciated and

recognize those barriers until I kind of experienced them through her eyes.

And I think it was a pivotal moment for me to kind of to see that

and acknowledge that it's kind of like it's a sombering realization.

Because it's easy to dismiss that when you're only seeing it from your

perspective, but when you see it from someone else's perspective and you

take the time to see it from someone else's perspective, it's very somber.

But I also think, but as a result of having that kind of like realization,

it makes you a better leader.

because that's always top of mind for me now.

It's like, I'm always.

I'm always thinking about like, like, okay, someone's not performing.

Like it's actually, it's given, I know this is not a short answer

to your rapid fire, but it's,

it's, you know, it's like, like, so let's say I have an

under, underperforming employee.

It's very easy to just dismiss that.

And like, now it causes me to really pause and kind of say, okay,

well, what else, what's going on?

Like, like, like, don't just dismiss it based on face value of like,

see it from their perspective.

you know, every so there's always other second, there's always other

circumstances and you need to take the time to understand them.

So, yeah, so I, I think that was a really pivotal moment for me in terms of how I

think about people's like what they're experiencing in their personal lives and

how that sometimes you don't even know right what's happening behind the door.

Yeah.

Question number four.

If you could have any animal that's a carnivore as a pet, regardless

of practicality, what would it be?

Oh, probably a shark.

Without a doubt, A shark.

Yeah,

That'd be cool.

. Ethan Young: that'd be sweet.

Yeah.

With lasers.

We have to have sharks with lasers.

Of course

All right.

How do you stay motivated, inspired, especially during tough times?

have a lot of hobbies that I tap into to distract.

Like music, music is my passion..

I think there is, there is in a recording studio.

Um guitar.

I'm like, I'm not to make music.

I can't play lead okay at rhythm.

so like when I'm stressed out Um, I go to that place like I like, like,

music is always my sound like it's always like kind of like I like

there's like literal albums that I listen to when I'm in certain moods

that lift me up or motivate me or, um, I even my high school yearbook,

my quote in my high school yearbook was a was lyrics from a Queen song.

so there, there are songs that hit me a certain way and

lyrics hit me a certain way.

So like that's always where I go when I need to pick me up.

What's the most ridiculous thing you've ever bought?

Oh, so my wife will tell you it's my collection of Star Wars toys.

so, so this is a funny, like I, so talking about the different

aspects of my personality, right?

So when my wife and I met, she knew I was a military veteran.

She knew I was going to MIT.

She didn't know I was a nerd because all my nerd possessions were in storage.

And we got engaged and we moved to California and the

nerd thing stayed in storage.

because we weren't sure how long we were going to live in California and

that ended up being a decade, but never took the time because we didn't

live in a big enough apartment to move the nerd stuff over, to California.

So we moved back to the East coast and now I'm reunited with my nerd stuff.

And my parents will live in New York.

You know, they'd come visit us periodically and every time they came

up, it was the box of Star Wars stuff.

And after the first box, my wife was like, okay, I knew you were into Star

Wars, but maybe not to this extent.

And then the second box shows up and she's like, okay, I understood

why you had the action figures, but do you need all the play sets?

And then the third box shows up.

She's like, oh, you got all the spaceships too.

And then it's like the fourth thing comes up, and it's like,

Shit, you've got costumes, too.

And by the time the fifth box came, and she's like, if I knew you had all this

stuff, I wouldn't have married you.

So, yeah, so, so, yeah.

So that's like the most ridiculous.

I don't buy them anymore.

No, no, I won't.

I'll take that back.

I have learned to fulfill that need through my children.

So my daughter's have a lot of Star Wars lego sets because they wanted them.

I get to build them with them, but they're all sitting on my, in my office now.

Well played there.

Well, Mike, thanks again for your time today.

We really appreciate it for anybody that wants to learn more about

Skanska or get in touch with you.

What's the best way for them to do that?

So LinkedIn is always a reliable way to

I'm pretty active on LinkedIn.

So that's the easiest way.

to find me.

if not, I mean, you can find me on email.

It's my first name dot last name at Skanska.

com.

So my full first name.

so Michael.

Zeppieri at Skanska.

com.

So, so either way,

Awesome.

We will put that in the show notes.

before we wrap up here, we need, I forgot to mention it at the

beginning, but we were playing our challenge words game and we were

all successful at working our word.

And Mike, your word was.

vegetarian.

Vegetarian.

He worked at him very well.

Ethan, your word was.

Mine was mosh pit.

You did great, man.

I was a little nervous for you, trying that one in there.

and mine was carnivore snuck it in there at the end and the challenge words, or

I'm sorry, in the rapid fire questions.

So good job guys.

Well, thanks so much for tuning into this episode of construction disruption

with Mike zeppieri, Vice President of emerging technology Skanska.

Please watch for future episodes of our podcast.

We are always blessed with great guests.

Don't forget to leave us a review on Apple podcast or give us a thumbs up on YouTube

until the next time we're together, keep on disrupting and challenging those in

your world to better ways of doing things.

And don't forget to have a positive impact on everyone you encounter.

Make them smile and encourage them, two simple yet powerful things we

can all do to change the world.

God bless and take care, this is Isaiah Industries signing off until the next

episode of Construction Disruption.