Branding Success with Scott Berman

I'm Todd Miller of Isaiah Industries, manufacturer

of specialty metal roofing and other building materials.

Today my ho co-host is Seth Heckman.

How you doing Seth?

Doing well.

How are you doing today?

Doing great.

You haven't been on the show in a while.

It's good to have you back.

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Looking forward to the good conversation and, uh, guest we've got today.

It's gonna be fun.

I know it will be.

I know it will be.

Absolutely.

So, um, I, I do wanna share something that occurred to me the other day.

It seems like usually when I run into people who are vegans, they don't like me.

I don't know why I've never had any beef with them.

Okay.

That was, do I get a five, six?

Yeah, that's an eight on the dad joke scale.

That was pretty good.

We'll take that.

Good deal.

Well, um, just a reminder to our, uh, audience, we are doing challenge

words once again, this episode where each, uh, Seth and I and our guest,

uh, have accepted a word that we are challenged to work into the

conversation as seamlessly as possible.

And, uh, at the end of the show, we will reveal our challenge word in

our last success or lack thereof in working it into the conversation.

So.

If you hear an interesting word or phrase, make note, that might be our

challenge word, or it may not be, we may just be saying something strange.

Um, so Seth, we're good to go.

Let's do it.

Well, as we've been discussing here for the last couple

episodes, now that we're into what we're calling season three of Construction

Disruption and about 160 episodes or so, um, we're starting to this

season really focus on guests who we believe are going to be a strong

interest to contractors in the home improvement and home services basis.

So, um, to that end.

We are especially excited about today's guest, which is Scott Berman.

Um, Scott is president of Florida Window and Door, Florida's leading

replacement window contractor.

Um, but we're also gonna be talking to Scott about his newest venture.

And I love this because he saw a need, uh, in his business and in the

industry, and he went out and filled it.

So his newest venture is heavy set technologies.

A firm that is disrupting lead acquisition acquisition with

modern tech-based solutions.

Um, Scott, in his past history, has been recognized as a legend

of the home improvement industry.

So lots to learn here, and he is a leading representative of our entire industry.

Um, Scott, welcome to Construction Disruption.

Look forward to learn learning from you today.

Thank you for having me and that kind introduction.

Well, we're ex we are excited to have you.

Thank you very much.

Um, Scott and I had a chance to sit down and talk a couple weeks ago at the Dave

Yoho event in, uh, St. Louis, and I walked away saying, we gotta get you, get him

on the show and tell his story and talk a little bit about this new venture as well.

So I. Um, we're gonna go back a little bit in history.

So, uh, you graduated with your Bachelor's in Business Administration

and that was back in the early nineties and about 17 years later, um, you

started Florida Window and Door.

Um, tell us a little bit about what interested you about this

industry that caused you to start floor to window and door.

Well, what what happened was my father was a

window manufacturer in Ohio.

Um, I was, originally, I'm from Ohio, happened to go to school, university

of Miami, went back to work for him, um, and realized that I didn't really

wanna, wanna manufacture windows.

Um, so he ended up selling that company to another manufacturer.

And I didn't really have a job, so I came back to Florida just sort of on vacation

and I was actually on my way to meet him for lunch and I saw a guy replacing

a window on the side of the road.

And so I pulled over and I started talking to him and I'm never usually late, but

I was about 45 minutes late to lunch and my father said, where have you been?

And I said, you're never gonna believe this.

Saw this guy replacing a window and I think I'm gonna

open a window business down.

And he looks at and.

How many windows was the guy replacing?

I said, I have no idea.

He said, well, how do you know it's a good business?

I said, I don't, but I, I have nothing else to do, so I'm gonna try it.

And, um, effectively we ended up opening and at that time, um, I had my dad's

partner in another business who offered to gimme money in addition to my own capital.

And, uh, my father told me at the time, don't take his money.

You don't need it.

You're making a mistake.

And I took it.

I didn't listen to him.

Um, and effectively we closed that company due to a partnership disagreement and I

actually filed for personal bankruptcy.

Uh, we liquidated the company and then I started floor to window

and door, uh, over basically new, um, with about 10, 10,000 in my.

Started from nothing.

And that's really how I got started.

Some of the best things out of those adversity situations

where I gotta make this happen.

Um, so that's a cool story.

Thank you.

Well, you know, as you look at Florida window and door and your placement

there in the Florida market, um, what would you say is the biggest thing that

really sets your company apart from other replacement window contractors?

You know, I know that, um, when I say this.

I'm gonna regret what comes out of my mouth, but candidly, um, for those

people who spend a lot of time in Florida, it's very difficult to get

reputable work done in your home.

Um, and so when we first started, like I was adamant that we'd be on time and

we're early, you know, five minutes early because I'm from the Midwest.

Everybody in the Midwest is early.

Um, and I think initially that's really what set us apart is

like I was never gonna be late.

And I think customers really respected that.

And we were, when we were running late, we would call and

say, Hey, we're running late.

Um, now the system is way more advanced.

Uh, obviously we do really good work, but I also think it's the way in which

we market ourselves, the commitment to the customer, and ultimately

the goal of trying to satisfy every customer that we do business with.

That's a great answer.

Does it get any better?

Better than that?

And I hear what you're saying about floor.

Florida.

Um, I'm not sure that that isn't the case to some degree in most states anymore, um,

but I certainly hear what you're saying.

No doubt about it.

Well, I'm, I'm kind of curious.

This almost seems like ancient history now to go back and talk about COVID,

uh, in the COVID years 2020 and 2021.

Um.

We always heard, of course, during that period that Florida was navigating

the pandemic better than other states.

I'm kind of curious what did your company have to do anything special

during those times, or what did that look like for you folks?

I.

It's interesting, um, being a legend.

I remember I was at a, actually at a David Yoho conference in, uh, Orlando

and David Moore said, uh, we were in this meeting and David Moore said, there's this

thing coming called COVID, and it it, it ended up taking over the entire agenda.

And, um, I remember driving home, calling my bankers and being like, I

gotta meet with you this afternoon.

I'm on my way home from Orlando.

There's this thing called COVID coming.

And so I went into their office and they look at me like I have two heads.

I'm like, we gotta extend our line of credit.

We're gonna have to do things like just get moving.

We bought a bunch computers, et et all.

What David?

While the rest of the country really was impacted by COVID, we did go remote

and um, you know, we, we, we basically gave all of our salespeople masks and

picnic tables and chairs and gloves.

Um, but we were lucky in the sense that we were still operating, uh, in Florida,

if I recall, essential industry was still allowed to work and we were really in the

gray area of essential industry because.

We're in the replacement window business, but construction was still going on.

I didn't really know if we were allowed, but I'm like, okay, we'll figure it out.

And we kept going and um, you know, it's, we, we doubled our business like so many

people in our industry in that year.

Um, but we've been able to maintain that level of volume and even go beyond that.

So, I mean, it was obviously our supply chain, uh, changed.

You know, we stopped.

We stopped, uh, we bought more internationally than domestically.

Um, we got creative, but I also think that it taught us really a good lesson

in the sense of how good our systems are.

And, and, you know, we fell back on our process and our process actually worked.

And when it.

Um, you know, we, we fixed it and, and I think it was, it

was an eye-opening experience.

Um, you know, obviously my feeling at COVID is everybody, even the bad

companies made money during COVID.

So I think now it's gone in reverse and, you know, everybody now realizes that

the home in home improvement industry is really a grind at the end of the day.

Leaves are hard.

They're expensive.

Um, I think COVID spoiled all of us.

Uh, but we were lucky enough that we've exited COVID with

the same discipline and the same aggressiveness that we had prior to.

That is a great response.

Glad I asked that.

Yeah.

And such a, like you said, testament to your systems of not

only being able to scale a hundred percent in a year, but then.

And maintain it, uh, on beyond.

'cause you know, like you alluded to, that's not the story we're hearing

from most, that three, four years after COVID were, you know, most aren't

anywhere near what those volumes were.

Uh, I'm curious, out of COVID having to do things differently, picking tables

and masks probably aren't still in the arsenal, but were there any new

innovations that were f uh, forced to, you know, into development that, uh,

are still being used and are having a powerful impact for you guys now today?

I mean, I think, you know, looking back, we did a lot of

automation where I think a lot of stuff was done manually because people

just weren't coming into the office.

So, you know, when COVID came, I really thought we were

gonna be shut down for months.

And so we, we redid our CRM and we spent a lot of time in the infrastructure,

assuming we weren't gonna do business.

The actual exact opposite happened.

We were implementing programs and processes and at the end of the

day, our business was exploding.

So, and you know, the one thing that we really did, I think well, was we

basically took advantage of talent.

Companies were closing, they were laying people off, we were hiring.

Um, we didn't care what it cost.

We were hired.

If we found the right people, we were hired.

Um, and we sort of always maintained that attitude since, which is, even if.

Necessarily need somebody.

If the resume is good and the interview is good, we're gonna hire that person.

And I think that's really what has allowed us to continue to grow and separated

us out from so many people down here.

I mean, you know, being from Cleveland, um, you know, the perspective of

Cleveland is always, we're always in a recession, it's always a grind.

So my feeling is that never really changes in my, my mindset.

And so we're just grinding it out.

Whether that's COVID and our business is booming, I'm still saying, God, we could

have been, we could have done 20% better.

So just sort of like how I'm built for better or for worse.

But you know, it taught us a lot.

I.

You know, I think that's interesting where you're

talking about, you know, we hire them, you know, based upon fit.

More so than, you know, skills or something.

And, and I hear so many great companies say that we can teach

skills, but there are those softer things, whether they fit within our

organization that we can't teach them.

So I'm, I'm kind of curious, I mean, you know, especially dealing with

construction, that's been a pretty tight labor market in recent years.

Um, what are some of those skills or softer skills or fit type things that you

look for in, uh, prospective team members?

You know, I think every candidate we look for, um,

from a management level is different.

I, I think it's more or less like, number one, are you a cultural fit with us?

What's your experience?

Doesn't necessarily have to be in Windows if it's in construction.

What's your commitment to customer satisfaction?

Are you willing to learn?

Do you wanna work hard or you just.

Um, you know, I think that it's the, it's not always right.

I mean, the key is, and you hear it all the time, the key is,

is you hire slow and fire fast.

And I know that's so cliche, um, but we really look at it in 90 day windows.

And I'm, and my famous saying is that you can hide in our organization for 90

days, and you'll be lucky if you get to 90 days, but you can hide for 90 days.

But on the 91st day, we're gonna find you.

So, you know, and you're, if you're loafing and, and we're a

performance driven organization across all metrics in all departments.

So, you know, we'll find you.

Um, we hired a couple people during COVID who I thought could really

help us, wanted to relocate to Florida and they were terrible.

Not 'cause they didn't have the skillset, but because they

didn't wanna work that hard.

And then ultimately they weren't a good cultural fit.

Um, but I hired some really big winners also.

And so everybody gets, you know, focused on the losers.

You really have to focus on the winners because the winners are what are, are

going to make your organization different.

And the other thing that I think we learned over time was that,

you know, not everybody wants to work in a large company.

Some people are a lot happier at 10 million, 15 million.

And that's the, that's the, uh, mindset that they're in and

that's where they wanna stay.

And so.

It is larger in dealing with so many customers and is a lot more

technologically sophisticated.

It's a hard, you know, it's a hard shake and uh, you know, so

I think that all comes into it.

We alluded to it a second ago where you, you all

are maintaining where others are maybe falling off and um, we got.

Tipped off a little bit from what you were sharing from, uh, from

the stage in St. Louis at the Yoho event there that, uh, leads may be

a little softer this year and, and dealing with some other challenges.

But curious what you're seeing there in Florida specifically, uh, in the home

improvement market, how you're feeling about things and maybe how, uh, you

all are addressing some of the, uh, challenges of pulling the leads out.

We need to maintain the volume and still be accomplishing our goals moving forward.

So in our case, um, you know, I think one of the strengths of our

organization is we continually reevaluate where we are and what we're doing.

So at the end of last year, around the fourth quarter, I started looking

at our sales process and leads and, um, you know, really trying to figure

out how this model is gonna change.

And obviously you had the TCPA laws coming into effect, allegedly coming into effect.

And so we were like, okay, we gotta really change our model.

And so what we, what we recognized was we're very data driven and

you know, we're almost like Google for the home improvement industry.

Like everything's on a, everything's on some kind of system and being

trapped every second of every day.

So one of the things that we recognized was we had terrible

retention in our sales force.

And when I say terrible, I mean it was terrible.

And we had spent, um, about $550,000 in 2024 on recruiting.

And when I tell you if we had 10 salesmen for the $554,000,

I'm big, overly generous.

Um, so my goal at the beginning of the year was to, to figure out

really how to fix retention and, and you know, when I use five 50.

What's scary is, and I didn't wanna do this and I probably should

have, but I didn't wanna be sick.

I didn't add in the amount of money I spent for the leads that I sent

these guys out on who are not with me, which is probably 4 million.

So we looked at the retention and we basically determined, Hey, for

living in Florida, we're really not paying our sales guys enough money.

So we, we, we change our compensation package.

But at the same time, while we change our compensation package, we also announced

expectations for our sales force.

And if they didn't do the expectations, they would get knocked down in

terms of lead flow, uh, or bonus or whatever the case may be.

And so the argument was, Hey look, I'm happy to pay you more money, but I'm gonna

expect more from you on the other end.

And as I ended may, I think our retention is close to 80% and the, and the 20%

are the people that we wanna get rid of.

Um, I will tell you that I am a hundred percent convinced that if we

could start this industry over again, um, salespeople would pay something

for the leads that we give them.

Because I think when I use the analogy all the time, and maybe you

guys heard me say this, I don't.

But like I look at leads and a salesman as the guy at.

All I keep doing is feeding this guy.

So if he knows it's an unlimited amount of food, why is he gonna sit

in the guy's driveway for another 20 minutes when he knows tomorrow?

I'm gonna give him two more leads.

And so it all came down to really a, a, an epiphany, for lack of a better word,

where it was like, we're doing this wrong.

Like we're gonna give you two leads every day and your

closing percentage is terrible.

So it costs me nine.

Give lead.

And it's like roulette.

And the data's there and we're not, and we're not following it.

So we really went back and said, Hey, look, if you're not closing at a certain

percent, you're gonna get less leads.

If you're behind the next tier, you're gonna get even less leads.

We implemented continuing education programs mandatory for low closures,

as well as our entire sales force on a credit basis over quarters.

We put in an LMA system so they could do it at their own, you know,

at their own discretion and time.

But we became more accountable.

And I think our salesmen, even though they claim they don't want

structure, the fact is they can't survive without the structure.

And so I think we're seeing the effects.

And when you look at it, what's happening is that our sales are up exponentially.

But what's interesting is our marketing costs are down.

Because I don't have to spend as much money for the two leads that I'm giving.

A guy who's not gonna sell, he's gonna be cut down to six or eight instead of 10.

We'll multiply that time.

70 people times $900.

You got a lot of money.

And so, you know, we're doing things like that because business is

tighter, leads are more expensive, and we have to be accountable.

That's incredible.

And there were so many facets of all you just laid out of what went into that.

It's amazing.

And it only goes back to having the data in the first place and sort of the

foundation of the technology to really pivot and, and have visibility where

all those pieces can come together.

So that had to have an.

Incredible impact on NSLI across the whole organization.

Right?

Significantly higher, and I'm.

Sure.

What it was a year ago.

But more importantly, what we commit to our sales team is, Hey listen,

we're gonna give you the expectation.

We're gonna expect you to follow the expectation, and we're not

gonna change it for the entire year.

'cause that's how we do everything.

We'll live with it.

Um, so the salesmen are making more money, but they're accountable on

the basis that if they don't do what we ask them to do, they know right

away they're gonna get less leads.

And so the, the trickle down effect is we have a compliance department

that hands out the leads and they're looking at it every, every week to what

the closing percentage is, and then they're feeding that information into

the call center because that then sets their schedule for the following week

and how many leads they need every day.

So it, it's driven through our entire organization and

it's been a big difference.

Yeah, and that was so something that came up

from a few different voices.

I think Chris Conahan mentioned it as well, and I know I've

heard it from Megan Beatty.

So, you know, other just really, um.

Incredibly smart people in our industry of this sort of, uh, batting order

perspective on lead distribution, which is sort of new for us in our

little segment where we're, you know, dealing with maybe some smaller

organizations or organizations covering huge geographic areas.

So they gotta, you know, distribute leads more just.

Based upon who the sales guy is closest.

But um, yeah, it seems like once the expectation is set, everyone across

the organization is really clear and it, uh, if you're at the bottom

of that order, you're either gonna opt out or know it's coming out.

You know, you're gonna opt out to leave and find something else yourself, or know

the writing's on the wall either way.

The key in our system is the information is done weekly.

Most other organizations are.

And in my mind that's too late.

Because what, what we realized also was when we looked at the

retention, it was like a bell curve.

You would've, the salesmen come out of training and they were amazing

and then they sort of crested on that curve and they started going down.

If you can't save that guy before he starts to crest,

you're gonna lose the guy.

So what we did was we put in coaches who like call 'em every

morning, how you doing today?

What's going on?

They're mindset coaches.

And they're, they're riding with them every day and, uh, you know,

making sure that their headspace, they're not having marital problems,

drinking problems, medical problems, whatever problems you would have.

And, uh, also we have a, we have a department called compliance, which

strictly does Rilla, uh, listens to Rilla, but we listen to every call

and then they're calling, they're sending the comments to the salesman.

And if the salesman doesn't listen to the comments, they get less leads.

So everything is intertwined because I don't, what I don't want is we

don't want a salesman who is un who is, um, unwilling or incapable

to educate himself to get better.

If we have that guy, he doesn't belong here.

He's just costing us money.

Are those mindset coaches, you know, more, uh, senior

salespeople that then are, have a couple of guys under 'em, or.

they're, um, they're people who are, who are.

Uh, managers who are, who are understanding and have, have processed the

one call close or for other organizations, but are, you know, really there to

check the temperature of the sales rep because these guys are so up and down.

So we're trying to, we're, we're trying to mod, we're trying to moderate them

to the point where we can control their emotions and what we typically

say, look, in order to be successful.

You have to have short term memory.

You're not gonna sell every job.

You're gonna get a cancellation, but you can't let it affect the next job.

And these, these positions are, uh, you know, positions that they're set

up where they don't sell anything.

They're not, um, you know, they're not salespeople.

They're strictly there to assist and mentor the salesman from a skillset

as well as a mental perspective.

That's awesome and it.

It's so easy to see all the benefits for the organization, obviously, of

making sure your investment's going, where you're gonna get the biggest

return, but obviously all these things are in the best interest of the team

members who want to maximize their ability and be successful and just

creates incredible opportunity for 'em.

That's awesome.

That was the idea behind.

One of the other things loved, uh, that you shared

in St. Louis and would, uh, yeah.

Love if you could share with our audience, uh, uh, now is, uh, the story

of Shelly, the Turtle and that, how that came together and, uh, what that

has meant for your guys' marketing, uh, this year, uh, that you've rolled out

Well, Shelly started out as a manatee

really.

a.

There you go.

Set me up perfectly.

Um, you know, it's an interesting story, somewhat funny, um, about

last year around, uh, the summer of last year sometime, we ran a

focus group of around 40 people.

And, uh, I truly, we do all of our own marketing internally, so we have a. And

I didn't really know they were doing this, but they did a focus group and they

put together all the ads in the state of Florida tv, radio, print, um, direct

mail, whatever the medium would be.

And they brought everybody in to 40 people and they showed 'em everything.

And then they let 'em go for a day and they asked him to come back.

And, um, they asked him, what do you remember?

Nobody remembered anybody, any company name.

They remembered the offer.

They remembered some guy putting a baseball bat through a window

or stepping on a window, but they couldn't identify the name.

So the marketing department, um, came up with the concept of Shelly.

So then they asked to meet with me, and I, I typically have my marketing

meetings twice a week, and so we'd like to show you something said, okay.

And they put Shelly in a very rare form.

In a rough form on the TV screens, and they show me what this is.

And I honestly thought they were kidding.

And I said some words to the effect of, are you blah, blah?

Kidding me, this is what I pay you guys for.

Um, and they said, no, but give us a few more minutes.

Just watch what happens.

So they brought a, about 10 people into my, off into the office,

into their department, all from different departments, uh, who, who

also had no idea what was going on.

And they said, all we want you to do is watch the people's face

while they walk in the door.

So I said, okay.

I watched the people's faces and um, every one of them left

with a smile on their face.

They're like, oh my God, we love Shelly.

So I said, okay, well, you know, I, I mean, I'm wrong.

Let's see if it works.

So, um, they developed it and, uh, we are now, I think the, according

to market research, the number one recognized brand in Florida for Windows.

Um, I, and it's all due to Shelly.

To the point where I have friends.

Actually, one of my first customers 20 years ago in Miami called me and said,

I just wanna let you know I love Shelly.

Like this is the, it's the most amazing thing I can, and I can't believe it.

I was in a mediation the other day and the guy's like, oh, you're

turtle tough the glass, right?

I'm like, yeah.

So it's, it's, it's really beyond anything that I could have ever imagined.

Um, but what it's also done is it's brought down our lead.

A good deal.

We'll.

I checked out the Shelly commercials and I love 'em.

I certainly see why it's working.

No.

Absolutely.

We were, yeah, I went and found 'em that night on, on YouTube in the hotel too.

So encourage people to check 'em out and, and yeah.

I love what your team did with them.

It was a, they threaded the needle very in incorporating it where she's

prominent and ta but also not, uh, I, you know, not corny or quirky.

It, it is, it's memorable.

It's cute.

It makes you feel warm and fuzzy and, uh, it sticks with you.

It's awesome.

I.

Um, is we really wanted to get rid of aggregators as a lead source.

And I think what we found, and this is only what we find, is that when your

aggregator, when your leads are too many, too high, a percentage of your

overall leads, your sales are down.

And so we started looking at the numbers of, of aggregator sources

we were using, and labor took us to.

Get the lead to set and then the cancellation rate, and then the

average sale and everything else.

And we started looking at this, we're like, this is not really sustainable.

And yet, if we would go on television with no Shelly, we would just be

another company on television or run an ad. We would just be another company.

So we developed Shelly, got rid of all the aggregators, went heavily on

television and direct mail and radio.

Well, we're not on radio yet.

We're going on radio billboards.

Um, and what we found was people really recognized Shelly, uh, to the point

where it was a competitive advantage.

Well, that's huge.

People.

People always assume the $75 aggregator lead is gonna be their cheapest

option, and guys just default to that.

But if you can be creative and do things better, you said, you said it brought down

to your overall marketing costs, right?

So.

It's incredible.

Well, well, not to diminish any, the other, uh, brilliant ideas coming

outta the marketing department, other areas of your organization,

uh, you know, I could keep asking questions all day about all that.

But do want to pivot here to, uh, probably what you're itching to

talk about, uh, heavy set tech.

Technologies.

And in this new venture, you're kicking off and starting, uh,

tech firm that started in 2021 with the goal to help businesses

integrate appointment scheduling, uh, directly onto their websites.

Uh, so, uh, heard a little bit about it.

Would love to learn more, and if you could share, uh, how heavyset

started and how you're helping folks.

So heavyset started because we started to see a tremendous

amount of leads that we were unable to set either after hours or just

couldn't get in touch with the customer.

And so we developed the idea of heavyset candidly, for use on our own.

And it started in 2021, only because I was like, well, let's

start a different company.

If, if it works, we can market it.

But I didn't, I I didn't really think it was gonna work.

Um, and it ended up working.

You can see I'm a little skeptical.

So, um, basically what what we decided was we wanted to send people to our website.

Initially and allow them to set an appointment, not by bot, which you

say, Hey, I want a 10 o'clock, and then the next morning they call and say, we

can't come at 10, but we can come at 12.

We wanted it to be, um, at a specific time, updated every few seconds, and,

um, allow somebody, like an Amazon experience to set a lead without

ever talking to a, to a human.

And this was really before ai, so to speak.

So the first phase we hired, you know, we, we brought in an internal programmer.

Um, he programmed it.

We weren't really happy with it, but we were using it and it was

working, and probably around 15% of our leads we're coming from heavyset.

Um, and the, and the conversion rate was better, and the average

sale was slightly better, and the cancellation rate was lower.

But what we also recognized was it allowed us to advertise at times

when everybody else was closed.

So therefore, we were getting leads that either other people wouldn't

see, or we were advertising hours that were less expensive, so we were

generating leads at a lower cost.

So that was important.

Um, so we kept developing it and, uh, you know, it, it, it,

it morphed into a lot of things.

Like we, we spoke to some people.

I, I showed some people that I knew.

I'm like, get this crazy idea.

What do you think?

And they're like, oh, this is amazing.

Can we use it?

I'm like, yeah, use it.

Let me know what you think.

Um, so they started using it and then they started bringing us some ideas.

And I started to realize, Jesus, we, we really have a business here.

So one of the things that I pride myself on, I think, is that I don't really wanna

develop something or give advice to people only who are the largest companies or

share ideas with the largest companies.

'cause I think there's a lot of value in the smaller companies, but can't

really scale an idea where I can take an idea and I can scale it and I probably

won't do an idea if I can't scale it or a business if I can't scale it.

I, I wanted to develop this for small companies as well,

because I think it added value.

So we came up with a pricing structure where it was basically a flat monthly

fee, and then it was a cost per lead, uh, that heavyset would set.

So if, for example, you're in December and you're in Ohio, your cost is $995 a month.

Clearly not crippling, but if you got two leads, it'd be $995 plus.

13 or $15 for the lead.

I don't remember.

Um, because I wanted the small guy to benefit from it.

So we signed up a couple people who were smaller accounts 'cause we

wanted to start with smaller people.

And then we sort of realized, well the downside to the smaller

company is, is they don't really spend a lot of money advertising.

So set's really not gonna be effective to it.

But they, they offered some insight.

They're like, Hey, you know, we'd like to have heavyset set

leads at a show so I could sit and talk to somebody at the show.

And instead of taking a piece of paper, writing it down and having 'em call,

you could take the phone number, or I'm sorry, the name and the email address.

And if they're in your database, it'll populate right away.

If they're not, it'll give you the opportunity to set the

appointment right there with a calendar invite sent to the person.

Um, sitting at the, at your standing, at your table on a shelf or a canvas lead.

Um, it also allows you to, if you're slow in a particular area or day,

you can text all of the customers in your database who didn't set a lead

and you can push a text out to say, Hey, we're running a special sale.

Keep our crews busy.

And we schedule a lot of appointments that way.

The other thing is, is that what we did, uh, is now, you know, two,

three years later, um, it confirms all appointments using AI by text.

So effectively, whatever your questions, you ask both people

home, are you the homeowner?

How many windows, how many stories, whatever, it does it through ai.

What's interesting is that the numbers, uh, in terms of conversion rate.

Um, average sale and, uh, cancellation rates are all significantly lower

than somebody setting a lead with, with my call center, which

by the way is very, very good.

So it's not like my call center sucks, and I'm comparing something

that's really good against it.

And actually, we publish all the numbers of what Shelly does, both in terms of

lead set and confirmation percentage.

Against our call center and against our confirmation department.

So, and, and what's happening is our confirmation department, as an

example, is using the conversation that Shelly is, I'm sorry, that heavyset is

having to better off to better their confirmation rate because it's using AI

so you can see the whole conversation.

So what we found, so now we have I think about 45 or 50 customers.

And it could be, you know, we have customers doing a hundred million

to, to customers doing 5 million.

I think, you know, three to 5 million is probably the, the bottom because they

just don't advertise enough to justify it.

But, um, you know, it's the future.

And, and, you know, we believe, and I think we're pretty close, um, that

we'll have voice ai, uh, to set leads and re and go through our database

within the next several weeks.

And, you know, we anticipate, I mean, from a, from a lead percentage, you

know, 35 to 40% of our leads are set using heavyset on a daily basis.

But the best part about it is, is that you come to work in the morning and

you have 40 or 50 leads sitting there that have already been set to fill your

schedule for the next day or the day after because we're readily available.

And, and so.

Um, I, I'm minimizing what the technology does 'cause it has email and all this

other stuff that, you know, candidly, I I, I'd be doing a disservice if I explained

it, but the general idea behind it is, is to make you more available 24 hours

a day to provide you an opportunity to advertise when your customers don't,

when your competitors don't advertise.

And to give your customer 24.

To schedule an actual appointment where you don't have to call 'em back

and say, we're not available, and I think the numbers speak for themselves.

I'm curious, we had Marcus Sheridan on the show, uh, author of

endless customers, uh, recently and, uh, in regards to online appointment setting.

He mentioned that some companies are starting to even let, uh, the

prospect choose their own salesperson.

Is that something that potentially heavyset could do or do you

have any feelings on that?

We could do it.

Um, we, I, in our organization, we.

The performance of the rep against the

lead.

So,

Yep.

you know, I think that gets a little dangerous.

'cause then it's like the best looking guy, you know, or the best

looking woman, or they wanna deal with a woman instead of a man.

I don't really wanna give 'em that perspective, but I think where heavyset

does come into value is that it's really only designed to do lead generation.

I'm not getting into the customer experience.

With, you know, the installation or this is strictly, I can get you more leads.

Like, for example, perfect example is an aggregator.

You, you, you know, when we were using aggregators, um, the aggregator text would

hit our, or the aggregator information would hit, customer information, would hit

our database and we would send a text out saying Thank you for contacting Florida

window and door, even though they didn't contact Florida window and door directly.

We would send the text out and then call 'em immediately.

Well, now, now not only do we send the text out, but we sent

the link to heavyset on the text.

And so what we're we're able to determine is, is that we're actually

setting more aggregator leads as a result of heavyset than we are when

my operator calls, because they've called three other people and they

don't wanna answer the phone anymore.

So when you talk speed, the lead, it doesn't get any faster than that.

Absolutely.

I am curious, can you give an example on advertising in hours

when others aren't, is that, you know, spending finding some cheap TV space at

nine o'clock at night and someone can still set it, sit on the couch or I.

It could be anything.

It could be, for example, you know, the easiest thing would be to say, um, Google

leads you, you know, most campaigns we used to stop at like six or seven.

Or four o'clock on a Sunday, because that's when our call center closed, which

effectively means you're out of business.

So you still have the, you, you still have the expense of the

building, the phones, the terminals, but you're not setting any leads.

This allows you to literally be open 24 hours a day.

So it's not uncommon for us to, to include a budget every day for

Google, between eight at night and 6 37 in the morning, eight o'clock in.

When our main money kicks in because we know there's nobody there, we're like

advertising with none of our competitors because their call centers closed.

So when you look at it from that perspective, it, it also

is not a less expensive lead.

It's a less competitive lead because if you're my competitor,

you're not gonna reach that guy who's not home during the day.

What if it's a fa, especially like in the Midwest, like there's so

many people who work second shift.

How are you reaching a guy who works second shift you?

You're not.

So he is never gonna buy windows.

Of course he is.

How are we gonna reach him?

That's where heavy set's ideal.

How would someone go about getting started with heavyset?

All you have to go is, um, first you should get a demo.

Uh, the, the best way to do it is go to www heavyset tech TECH, and

that might, uh, the company will set up a demo for you and do a far

better job of explaining it to.

Uh, it sounds like Heavyset was kind of born out of, you know,

you saw this need any, where, where do you look at for, for inspiration

for your business and for ideas?

I. Today, are there any particular people you follow or books you read?

You know, I, I think at the end of the day what we do is

we, we try to find technology or a process that doesn't necessarily have

to be in the home improvement space.

I read a lot of books.

More biographies than anything, but I think it's more or

less like, wait a second.

You know, heavyset, my wife we're driving to dinner and she's shopping on Amazon.

You know, I can't even have a conversation with her 'cause she's

always shopping on something.

Um, and it's like, wait a second.

Why can't you do that for home improvement?

It doesn't make sense.

You're talking about your week.

It's the weekend.

You are just cleaning your windows.

There are a disaster gutters.

You need exterminating, whatever.

Why are you limited to the amount of hours that a business is

open and this environment, you really can't do that anymore.

Um, so we're looking at stuff that, you know, in all honesty,

hasn't been done before.

Um, and I think if you, if you look at it from that perspective and adapt

it to your business, I think you'll find some pretty damn good ideas.

And, you know, obviously the legends and all the people we know,

um, you know, and the people that you can talk to in our industry.

I mean, I remember when I was a smaller company and far less

recognized than I am today.

Um, I was scared to go up to people like me.

And what I find now is I'm like, oh my God, these people

are so special and so super.

I mean, like, you know, Brian Elias and Mark Curry and some of

these guys who are just brilliant.

They're, they're my closest friends and we all, we all want each other to do better

and are all more, more than willing to help other people build their business.

And we take great pride in it.

And so, you know, I, I use what I said to you guys before, it's

like, I can, I hear good ideas.

From a lot of groups that we're involved in, but it's a small company

and they're like, nobody's listening to that guy, but I'm listening because

I think I can take something he said, and it still teaches me to this day,

and when it doesn't teach me anymore, or I'm not learning anymore, I'm done.

And I know I'm done because there's nothing else to do.

Well, this has been a fascinating discussion.

Thank you very much, Scott.

I'm very thankful for your time.

Uh.

We're close to wrapping up what we call the business end of things.

Is there anything we haven't covered today that you wanted to

be sure to share with our audience?

I think at the end of the day, you're in a great industry.

Um, you know, the companies that are have the best process, have the

best systems, continually change those systems to make them better.

Are gonna be the companies that survive.

And I think, you know, all of us have gotten very spoiled over the last three or

four years, and I beg you to change your process and to be more critical of your

thought process and analyze information because that's really what the future is.

You know, that there's so many things like that.

When I go into our office and I look at, um, you know, the amount

of data we're analyzing every day.

If you would've told me 15 years ago that this is what we do, I would've

told you, you were absolutely crazy.

And now it's everywhere.

It's realo, it's engaged, it's, uh, balto, you know, and it goes on and on and on.

And I think that so many people who are in our industry don't do

the things or learn the things that they're uncomfortable with.

So it's like, well, I'm not good at marketing, so I'm gonna

hire somebody to do marketing.

I'm not good at the accounting.

I'm gonna hire somebody to do the accounting.

And they're gonna take the, the time to learn.

And it's, and they can learn.

It may not be the best, but they can learn.

And I just implore everybody to, you know, to learn because

there's so much out there.

And the industry is changing so fast.

So fast.

And if you're not changing and you're not.

Growing, you're really gonna be left behind.

You know?

And I, and I can tell you, just knowing what we do every day, like, I'm not

saying that's normal, but I think that's gonna become the normal down the road.

Well, great advice, Scott.

So much, A lot what you said was just so spot on and kind of like that

first strawberry of spring, just, um, so sweet and, and so perfect.

So thank you.

Well, before we do close out, I wanna ask if you're willing

to participate in something we call our rapid fire questions.

Scott, these are seven questions.

Some are serious, some are silly.

All you have to do is give a response.

You're up to the challenge of rapid fire.

Sounds like fall.

Awesome.

Seth, you wanna ask the first one?

Sure.

Absolutely.

So for the, I'm gonna call an audible for the first question

because I'm a sucker, uh, for book recommendations and love biographies.

So what was a recent one you've read that uh, you would recommend for the audience?

It's an old one.

It was the Rockefeller story.

I'm gonna look it up

Cool.

Thank you.

Uh, question number two.

If you could swap lives with someone for a day, who would

you choose to swap lives with?

To be Elon.

There you go.

today,

Today we, we are recording this during the

Great Musk Trump, uh, feud.

So by the time this airs, we'll see what's going on at that point.

Good answer.

Uh, question number three.

If you could instantly master one skill, what would it be?

Lead generation

Question four, uh, dog, person or cat person.

Dog

There you go.

What has been a product or service you have, you

have acquired in recent memory that was a real game changer for you?

Power bi.

What is that?

Power BI allows you to summarize all of the data in

your CRM so that you can, you can look at it a lot quicker and, and.

And more efficiently.

I'm gonna check that out.

Hadn't heard of it yet.

Um, question number six, and you've already mentioned a couple.

Um, who is a teacher or mentor that has had a profound impact on your life?

Let's, let's change that.

Go back to elementary school, favorite teacher and what,

what you remember about them.

It's funny, uh, my favorite teacher was a woman named Flo Goodman.

She was my kindergarten teacher and I actually just ran into her.

Coincidentally, she.

And I ran into her and I was like, you were the only teacher who

liked me and gave me a good grade.

Did she remember

You

did?

Yeah.

Oh, that's awesome.

Good.

Good answer.

I.

Last question, rapid fire number seven.

What would you like to be remembered for at the end of your days?

I would like to be remembered for helping, for talking to

people in a very straightforward and easy manner, and for helping as many

people in our industry as I possibly can.

Uh, grow their business or do whatever they want with their business.

Fantastic.

Good stuff.

Well, Scott, thank you again for your time today.

Um, for those who may wanna get in touch with you, of course, I know

they can find you on LinkedIn pretty easily, but, um, or again, give us the

heavyset technology information as well.

Uh, what are ways folks can connect with

So you can, the best way is probably email, it's

scott@floridawindowanddoor.com all spelled out.. On the heavy set, it's heavyset.tech

Good deal.

Well, thank you again and congratulations guys.

I think we all got in our challenge words.

Um, Scott, the word you had to work in was

manatee.

manatee.

You worked it in great.

Um, Seth, you got your, I don't think anyone probably even noticed yours.

Yours was.

Diminish

Diminish

did.

Yep.

and uh, mine was probably kind of obvious

as I worked in strawberries.

So I was, I was, uh, we were getting close to the end and I was desperate.

So thank you again, Scott, for being here.

We really appreciate your time.

I.

Well, and thank you to our audience for tuning into this

episode of Construction Disruption with Scott Berman of Florida Window,

indoors, and also heavyset technologies.

Please watch for future episodes of our show.

We're always blessed with great guests.

Don't forget to leave a review or give us a thumbs up or whatever.

Um, until the next time we're together, though, keep on disrupting, keep on

challenging the status, status quo.

Um, looking for better ways of doing things.

Uh, and don't forget to have a positive impact on everyone you encounter.

Uh, make them smile, encourage them.

Simple, yet powerful things we can all do to change the world.

So God bless and take care.

This is Isaiah Industry signing off until the next episode

of Construction Disruption.