AI-Driven Pre-Construction Processes with Jon Sibley

Welcome to the construction disruption podcast, where we

uncover the future of design, building, and remodeling.

I'm Ryan bell of Isaiah industries, manufacturer

of specialty metal roofing and other building materials.

And today my co host is Ethan Young.

How are you doing today, Ethan?

I'm doing good, Ryan.

How about you?

I'm doing great.

Uh, kind of getting back into the flow here with recording season two.

I do have a dad joke for you to kick things off.

What do you call?

A pig that does karate.

Something with pork chop.

It's gotta be something with pork chop.

Okay, you got it.

You got it a pork chop.

You got it.

Good.

I was gonna say, I'd be a little disappointed if you can't get that one.

Yeah, that's a good one.

All right, well, let's dive in and get started.

Um, today our guest is John Sibley, CEO of Tru.

Built a venture-backed startup, leveraging the latest in AI and NLP

technology to deliver pre-construction and takeoff software solutions to

residential and commercial builders.

Faced with high inflation, pricing, volatility, and supply chain issues.

Builders now more than ever need robust software solutions to drive profitability

and true built increases the speed and accuracy of the pre construction process.

John, it's great to have you on the show today.

Thank you for joining us.

Thanks for having me.

And thanks for the great intro.

Well, let's dive right in.

And, uh, can you start by giving us a.

a kind of overview of what your mission is at Truebuilt.

And could you tell our listeners a bit about what Truebuilt does

exactly and the problems you aim to solve in the construction industry?

Yeah.

So Truebuilt's mission is to minimize risk and win more

business for American builders.

We do this by providing an end to end pre construction platform.

Um, in those last two, call it three years, pre construction itself, that

active Understanding, you know, what goes into that construction project really has

never been tougher or, or more crucial.

And there's a lot of market forces at play, right?

The supply chain issues of COVID pricing, volatility, the rising

cost of building the labor shortage.

Um, I'm sure you've talked about all of those on, on this podcast.

Um, but the other problem, problem with pre construction is that

estimators and pre con managers are forced to use a patchwork

approach to the software that they.

Um, leverage and so they end up using, you know, 4 to 6 different

platforms to complete the entire pre construction phase.

And what ends up happening is you lose data.

You have to do double manual entry.

A lot of these softwares were literally created in 1999, 2005, and, you know,

they haven't been updated as much sense.

So the very 1st thing we do is bring pre construction managers and estimators.

To modern software, cloud based software, you can collaborate much better.

You can leverage that data much better.

Um, and then we've developed some innovative AI and NLP features

that you mentioned before.

That really automate and speed up the pre construction process.

Um, in particular, we reduce take the time spent on takeoff by about 200%.

And so that frees estimators up to be a bit more thoughtful about how they're

going to present that bid, um, or even go after more bids and ultimately

win more business, which obviously boosts revenue and profitability.

That's awesome.

Um, Can you talk about the AI and NLP a little bit more?

Uh, like what exactly, what, what other things does that do

to help speed up that process?

And also I'm assuming there's probably some accuracy that is, that

comes along with using that as well.

Yeah, there definitely is.

And, um, yeah, I'll start with the accuracy piece.

Cause that's, that's really interesting to me as someone who

came from the AI and NLP world.

Um, AI models are only going to be as good as the data that it's trained

on one and two that's provided.

And so when it comes to takeoff, for example, our AI AI models really

depends on the quality of plans that are presented to the general contractor or

subcontractor that that's using TrueBuild.

We're trying and really putting a lot of R& D resources into training our

AI models on plans that, you know, might not be as developed, um, as

others, ones that are more in that, you know, early phase of construction,

you're still in that design phase.

And so we're trying to improve that as well.

Um, but even with that said, our AI models are highly accurate when it comes

to takeoff, you know, You can take off all the walls, um, in just a few seconds,

um, you can do area just by one click.

So instead of having to do that, you know, manual, um, drag and point that

you have to do with other software, you can just do one click into the room.

It'll pick up the area perimeter, you can add height to that.

Um, so it's pretty, pretty powerful stuff for, for 2d takeoff.

And then on the NLP side, and that's natural language processing.

We have a variety of use cases.

One is our AI spec assistant.

Probably the most important feature that's leveraged there right

now is our auto renaming tool.

So when you upload a plan, you know, huge massive file.

Oftentimes it takes estimators and pre con managers.

Hours, sometimes even days to go through, rename every single page, split out the

different page pages, figure out where those pages need to be hyperlinked.

And our software can do that renaming and hyperlinking with

about 100 percent accuracy.

And processing a 1000 pages in 5 seconds.

So it's literally saving hours just up front on the upload.

And then from there, we're going to take off, which I already discussed estimation.

Pre construction is the 1st time that there's been all this

great data about the project.

It's really important that estimators and pre con managers can leverage that data.

And with a cloud based solution like TrueBuild, you're able

to do that much easier.

We have some cool machine learning features that really

can pull in that historical data.

And you can also engage with our AI spec assistant and ask, you know, compared to

a previous project I had, let's say it's another, you know, K through 12 school.

Um, how does this compare?

You know, in terms of the cost of gypsum, you that answer right away.

So it's very, very much focused on reducing time spent on

the pre construction process.

Um, and boosting, boosting accuracy as well.

So I struggle with this a little bit, and I've been kind of diving

into the AI world and even like through this podcast, uh, trying to utilize AI

to speed up the editing process, writing the, the questions, all that stuff.

And I'm, I struggle with kind of putting my trust in it.

Do you have any, you know, I kind of feel like it's a nice

chandelier hanging from a wire.

Um, and I just don't trust it yet.

Do you have any tips or advice for that about, you know, what sort of human

involvement is still required there and overseeing things, or, or just, is

it something you should put your trust in and know it's going to do its job?

Yeah.

So we actually talk about AI as augmented intelligence at Truebill.

Okay.

And that's because we think, you know, our estimators and pre con

managers who are using our platform, oftentimes have, you know, 20 years

of real world job site experience.

Like that.

That expertise is is completely invaluable.

Um, and so what we've done is trained our AI models on the more annoying parts

of the workflow, like understanding door schedules and assigning those accordingly,

or picking out the texture types and reflected ceiling plans automatically

instead of having to do the manual job.

So we focus on the more annoying, cumbersome, um, Unnecessarily

manual parts of the workflow.

But you as an estimator and pre con manager still need to come in with

your own expertise, your experience, your opinions on the project.

You know, something that might not be in the plans, but you heard from the

architect or the general contractor, you know, that, that information might

not be captured, uh, on the plans for the AI to do something about it.

And so we encourage our estimators and pre con managers.

So yes, Trust it, test it out, but you still need to look over it because,

you know, no machine right now is going to be as powerful as an estimator

with 20 years experience on the job.

We all still have to do our job, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So for us, it's about improving that productivity of the estimator and freeing

up their time to go after more bids or, you know, make that bid better.

Um, and less about fully automating the process.

Yeah.

I think that's the strongest argument I've heard for AI in my time.

He's, you know, just a tool that we can use to enable us to spend more time on

the meaningful stuff, you know, I think that's a great, a great way to put it.

Yeah, I agree.

So, uh, with inflation, you know, there's a lot of pricing volatility

and supply chain issues that have been impacting, you know, the

construction industry for a while now.

Um, is there anything that your software does to kind of

help builders navigate this?

Yeah.

So pre construction being the phase, um, that it is where all the stakeholders

and all the data are coming together for the first time, we need one single

tool for those stakeholders to interact.

And for that data to live in and be leveraged.

And that doesn't really exist on the market today, because, like I said before,

they use this patchwork approach to software where, you know, they're using

something for takeoff, something for estimation, something for bid management,

something for bid leveling, they're stitching it back together in Excel,

which the colleague, you know, might have trouble accessing or that might be.

Disparity in terms of what they, they did a takeoff on.

Um, and so having that end to end solution, we think gives a better

view into that, that pre con workflow.

Um, you know, obviously we can't directly, um, Directly impact

the supply chain issues that the industry is facing, but we can make

our estimators and pre con managers more informed and more productive.

This always kind of frustrates me.

The con you know, the construction industry as a whole, um, home, whether

it's home improvement or, or building or commercial has been traditionally

been pretty slow to adopt new technologies and stuff, especially in.

In the world of online stuff and all that jazz, but is there anything that

you guys have done with Truebuilt to kind of encourage and maybe remove that

hurdle or some of that hesitancy that, uh, contractors or builders can have?

Yeah.

So I think, I think there's two things.

Um, number one, our design approach has been let's balance

the familiar with these innovative features that we want to develop.

It is a very hard task to ask someone who's been on the same software for

15, 20 years to switch over because that's what they're used to, that's

what other colleagues are used to.

And when we first started TrueBuild, we made the mistake of, I think,

redesigning and rethinking estimation and takeoff as a whole.

What we learned is that, in reality, everyone was very used to tables.

They were very used to Excel spreadsheets.

And so we had to take what they were familiar with, put that into our

platform, and then pick and choose these spots that I talked about earlier

where we can impact the more cumbersome, annoying, painful parts of the workflow.

Through AI and through some more of these innovative features, so that balance

of, you know, what, what's familiar to our users versus where can we push the

envelope, um, is very, very important.

1 of our customers told me this Henry Ford quote, and it goes

something like, you know, if they had asked me what they wanted, they

would have said, uh, faster horses.

And there is an element of that of, you know, we need to design something

that is different from what's existed, but we can't totally forget what

people are used to in the construction world, because that adoption is, like

you said before, quite quite slow.

And then the 2nd thing that we've done is we've really tried to start with

the top of the construction industry.

We're focused on commercial construction.

We work with a variety of 400.

Cut customers right now, and I think it was my theory is that the

technology queues throughout the industry are taken from the top.

And so us focusing on enterprise, you know, top tier customers kind

of goes against the grain for what someone in the software world would

advise a young startup like us to focus on, but impactful because these

larger companies are more innovative.

They're more willing to try new technology.

Yes, they are set in their current software, but they're also willing

to invest in the next great thing.

And what we've seen is that as more and more of these enterprise customers have

used Truebilt for say bid management, they send out bids to different

subcontractors, um, via Truebilt.

And so all these subs will, you know, find out about Truebuild,

uh, just via that organic process.

Um, so it's been this great network effect as well.

Uh, and then we've started to get a lot of referrals because, you know,

some of these larger customers, you know, are happy and impressed with

the innovation that we are doing.

So you're, you're focused mostly on commercial then

not necessarily residential or, or.

We, we do a little bit of both, um, but primarily

has been commercial so far.

Um, we do work with a few home builders, uh, again, or a bit larger, but our

focus has primarily been commercial.

Well, my next question was kind of going to be about scalability

then and how adaptable TrueBuild is.

To different projects and sizes.

But I guess that kind of answer, it sounds like it's more geared

towards the larger products.

Projects.

That's where it's just today, but we do have plans

to expand that in the future.

Um, we get a lot of requests from, from civil companies as well.

So going, you know, even to the more complexity.

Um, and then recently we've gotten more and more inbounds

from that residential side.

Um, so, you know, the, the platform is very, very flexible.

It can work with, you know, both anyone that's doing takeoff estimation and

bid management can use the platform.

Um, and so I'd say it's less about that, you know, specific type of

project and more about what is their current workflow and does that match

to a workflow they can achieve and

So collaboration is obviously an essential piece to, uh,

you know, any construction project that involves multiple people, companies,

um, contractors, subcontractors.

How does Truebill facilitate that collaboration and communication?

Throughout a project.

So first of all, our general contractors can send out bid requests

to sub contractors, VR platform, subcontractors can reply, um, general

contractors will level off those bids.

They can communicate directly in the platform.

Um, what's different from us and other bid solicitation platforms

out there is that it's not coming from, you know, true built.

com.

Um, because when that happens, oftentimes the subcontractor will miss it.

It'll get a spam.

It's easier for them to ignore with our platform.

We built an integration to outlook so that it can come from your personal email

from, from John at true built software.

com.

And we see a much higher response rate from subcontractors because of that.

And that response rate can be either via email and I'll be integrated,

pushed back into the software.

Um, or it can be through the true built app and the true built

subcontractor side of the portal.

That's like the very first area where they can start to, um, collaborate and engage.

Um, the other thing that we have, that's pretty unique in the industry too,

is something called multiplayer mode.

And that's where multiple estimators can be on the same plan at the same time.

And literally if they turn multiplayer mode on literally see each other's

mouse like performing takeoff.

Um, you can also invite a subcontractor to see that.

Um, and so being cloud based gives us that advantage to have multiple people

in the same project at the time and literally be able to see your colleague

if they, let's say your colleagues on the job site, you're in the office and they

want to show you something on the plans.

You can literally click a button and follow their mouse around and go

through the entire spec book together.

That's cool.

That's I use, uh, I don't know if you're familiar with Figma.

Figma was a big inspiration for us.

That, that follow button is, is very, very similar in how it works.

So if somebody is, uh, going to send out a bid request for

a bid to some contractors, are they choosing who the, who they're sending

that out to through their connections?

Or is that part of your platform that those subcontractors are

there like with the profile?

Yeah, again, different from.

What's out there today is that we have this dual directory approach where

there is this true built directory of subcontractors that we've curated.

Um, I would say the difference in that part of the platform as well is that we've

gone out and verified and literally called these subs to verify their information.

Um, some of the other software platforms for bid solicitation have

really become a mess of data because.

They allowed the subs to, you know, update your, your, their information themselves.

And all of a sudden you have a, you know, glass guy, glazier guy

in Washington, DC saying you can do jobs in Southern California.

Um, and that creates like all a whole host of problems.

Yeah.

So that's the, the true built directory.

And then we have this other directory that we allow.

Our customers to manage directly, um, some of our customers leverage,

both some of them, you know, roughly bid out to the same subs every time.

So they just kind of keep it separate.

Um, and then you can pass information and data back and

forth between those 2 directories.

Um, let's say, you know, someone.

One of your contacts moves companies, uh, you have to update the email address.

You can do that in, in either place.

Is there a particular success story that you could share

with us or like a case study of kind of, you know, where your, your

software has significantly benefited, whether it's a particular client that

you work with or a certain project, does anyone come to top of mind that.

Yeah.

Uh, we, we worked with a lot of, uh, a very large builder in, in Dallas.

Um, they're focused on municipal projects and K through 12 schools.

Um, so because they're, you know, typically bidding on a government

projects or they're bidding and their bids have to be very, very tight.

They have to be very informed, maybe more so than, uh, say

design build general contractor.

Um, and so they started using true built last year and have seen a

significant uptick in the accuracy.

Of their projects as compared to what the project ends up at.

Um, so every project they do, they have to do it with the city or county, whoever

they're working with, um, and do an audit of, all right, what did this cost?

And what did we estimate it to be at?

Um, and that accuracy has improved a lot.

It's improved so much of their main competitor also in Dallas.

Ended up coming to true vote because they heard from these guys that, Hey,

we're, we're using this new platform.

Um, so that was pretty cool to see, you know, sign up a new customer

just through, through word of mouth.

Um, the second story I like to tell too, is, you know, I think most of

the commercial construction world knows that pre con needs a shakeup.

Um, you know, it's, it's very, very rare that we can't get someone on the

phone or can't schedule a new meeting.

Um, and people are very excited about innovation in this space.

Um, we work with the largest drywall company there in, in

Texas, um, Merrick brothers.

Um, they were so excited about our vision that they asked to

also invest in the company.

And, you know, these guys aren't necessarily tech investors,

not necessarily looking to get into the venture capital world.

So they, they actually came in, uh, towards Stephen Brown last summer,

alongside our prop tech and VC investors.

Um, and they've been great, great partners as well.

And just seeing that excitement from folks who are excited about what's

possible in pre construction, uh, has been great validation for our own vision.

Very good.

Um, imagine let's imagine you have a crystal ball and looking into it.

What, what sort of advancements do you see on the horizon in terms of AI and

NLP technology that could further enhance and grow what you guys are offering?

Yeah, so I think there's been a ton of focus on NLP, uh, in

the tech world over the last year, and it's definitely improving.

I think an area that we haven't touched yet is being able to generate text,

um, out of an output of estimation.

So say let's complete, you know, take off estimation, run a job summary report.

You know, can we use leverage some NLP technology to create a proposal out of

that that is customized to that company and, um, is very intelligent and, you

know, how it presents that report.

Um, so I, I think there's a little bit in NLP.

What we're most excited about is that computer vision.

Um, technology that we're using on our, on our blueprints, I think with

computer vision and not saying true Bill's going to get into this, but off

the job side on the job site, like, that is a productivity game changer, like,

yes, generating texts and writing texts can, you know, save you some time, but

having a computer, you know, computer vision model monitor job site 24 seven,

there's a few companies out there doing that, I think is really, really huge.

The second part of this is how can AI and NLP produce our

own productivity at Truebuilt?

Um, there's a lot of software engineering co pilots out there that

are growing in popularity, uh, but also improving performance of, you

know, software engineering teams.

And we're starting to leverage that a bit more and that will ultimately

speed up our own pace of development and make us more productive too.

Does it scare you at all how fast AI is?

Progressing.

It definitely does.

And I, I know that's weird to say as someone who's trying to bring that

to, uh, the, the construction world.

Um, but it, but it is shocking.

So I mentioned before that I started my career in natural language processing

and, uh, this was like 2015 and we were, you know, on this wave of AI being

the next big thing and that kind of dipped and now we're in another wave.

Uh, but back then we could organize data and we could contextualize written data.

Uh, but we couldn't.

Right.

And generate new, new, uh, text data.

And that's where, you know, something like chat GPT comes in.

And, um, I don't know if you've all seen some of like the AI

videos and, and deepfake stuff.

Like it's that, that, that's the part that scares me, especially when

it's applied to, you know, politics, uh, macroeconomic conditions, like

that, that's pretty scary to me.

Adobe just announced that they have a new version, beta version

of premiere that is doing some.

You know, kind of bringing their generative fill and stuff from Photoshop

into video, which is, yeah, I mean, I, I agree that that can be scary.

And the voices that you can fake someone's voice.

I mean, you know, a lot, a lot of bad, I think is going to come from all that.

I think so too.

I think there'll be a painful period.

Um, If you look at, you know, any new technology, often the regulation

comes like 10 to 15 years after.

And I think we're probably going to be in this unregulated or relatively

unregulated period for a while.

Um, but to give the other side of this, I mean, obviously the U S is

facing a massive deficit right now.

And, um, you know, there, there's been a lot of talk of like, how do you fix that?

Is it raising revenues, um, through, through taxation?

Uh, is it cutting spending?

And you know, my, my theory on it, it's improving productivity of the American

workforce through better technology.

And AI should be the technology that does ultimately solve that.

Yeah.

I wanted to go back to that point.

You're saying earlier about it being kind of a wild West unregulated.

I think it's funny right now.

We kind of look at it.

Not everyone, but I think, you know, AI can be kind of like a jokey thing, you

know, like use it for pranks, use it for whatever, but it is a little scary.

Like you said, that regulation isn't going to catch up for a while.

I think it's, we, we haven't really run into any huge, huge consequences

or, you know, things like that popping up, but I think that's going

to definitely come up in the future.

So.

Interesting to see where it goes.

I saw this old YouTube video the other day, uh, when they

started enforcing people wearing seatbelts and how, uh, frustrated

people, uh, were with that.

And, you know, we, we do need a seatbelt or bodyguard, if you will, for AI.

Yeah, definitely.

It's a good way to put it.

Is there any advice you would give to an aspiring young entrepreneur that may be

looking to disrupt disrupt traditional industries, whether it's construction or,

or something else with technology based on the experience you've had with Truebill?

Yeah.

So the first thing I said, I'll say is construction and other

kind of verticals that are.

Call them industrials, oil and gas, agriculture are definitely

right for disruption as well.

Um, that tech adoption is slower, but that also presents a huge opportunity.

Um, I tell our sales team all the time, you know, our, our customers

don't really make software decisions that often, maybe once every 20 years.

So yes, it could be painful to get them on for the very first time.

But after that, we're going to have them for a long time.

Um, especially with the estimation data that we have.

I think my biggest learning, it goes back to what I said about balancing

that, you know, what's familiar with, with what's innovative.

Um, and that really comes down to following what the

customer is telling you.

Um, as we approach these, you know, other verticals that are more

industrialized, maybe a little.

slower moving on the tech side, it's very important that you reduce any

friction to them adopting that tech.

And that's making sure that you're taking what they like about their

existing product, integrating that into yours, and then picking and

choosing the spots where you can be innovative and can push the envelope.

A

good point.

Yeah, it's a good way to put it.

Thanks so much, John.

Uh, this has been great, really insightful and we're thankful, you

know, you're sharing your knowledge and experience here with us.

Um, we're close to wrapping up what we call the business end of things.

Is there anything that we haven't covered today that you'd like

to share with our audience?

I guess for your audience specifically, What I'd go back to is

that approach of augmented intelligence.

That's how Truebuilt's approaching it.

But that's how, you know, you should approach it in your professional

and personal lives as well.

You know, how can this make me better?

How can this make me productive?

There are scary elements of that, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't, you

know, experiment and try and figure out what does help you, what does improve

lifestyle productivity, et cetera.

Good advice.

Yeah.

You got to figure out how to get a AI to take some strokes off the golf game.

You know, maybe they'll get that one day, but

actually I, uh, I just got these, uh, they're called Arcos.

I think, I don't know if you've seen those, John, but they're

little things you put on the end of your golf clubs and they, I

have, I have seen those actually.

Yeah.

But I live, I live in Ohio and it's, the weather's been horrible, so I

haven't been able to use them yet.

Okay.

Well, uh, so before we close out, we like to do something that's

a little fun kind of here at the end called rapid fire questions.

These are seven questions.

Um, some may be serious.

Most of these are kind of silly.

All you gotta do is, uh, give a quick response.

Are you up for rapid fire questions?

Let's do it.

Awesome.

Uh, Ethan and I will alternate turns asking Ethan, you can

kick us off if you'd like.

Awesome.

Um, all right, this is a fun one.

If you could replace, or let's say if you had to replace your hands with any

kitchen utensil, which one would you pick?

I think scissors and maybe spatula.

Okay.

Yeah.

That's a good shot.

That's a good shot.

I was going to go with knife and spatula, but maybe scissors

would offer a little more

knife.

Sounds a little dangerous.

I was going to do tongs just cause I feel like that'd be

nice to pick stuff up, but Oh yeah.

That's a great one.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that's a must have.

Good point.

Ethan.

All right.

Um, if aliens landed tomorrow and offered to take you to their planet,

what earthly possession would you insist on bringing with you?

I actually have no, no idea.

Um, my, my mind is going back and forth between something I need to bring so

that I can show them what, what humans do and something I would just want myself.

Yeah, that's a tough one.

I don't think I'd have an answer for it.

What's a valuable lesson that you've learned

from a failure in your career?

Yeah, so I think Listening to that voice, the customer that I alluded

to earlier, what was something we missed in the first, um, era of, of true built.

Um, and that's something that we've definitely corrected, but it did, you

know, cause some pain for our customers.

And, um, that's, that was a failure on my part.

Gotcha.

Question number four, this might be one of my new favorite rapid fire questions.

And GPT, by the way.

What?

Would, would you rather fight one horse-sized duck or a

hundred duck sized horses?

I think one horse-sized

duck.

Really?

Yeah.

I, I think I'd go for the horses.

I think I'd be overwhelmed by the, the horses.

There's a lot of horses.

Yeah.

A a hundred is a lot.

Yeah.

Um, and they're, they're really, really dense and, and strong.

I feel like the ducks might be, uh, a bit weaker,

a little bit.

In the same vein, if you could have any superpower, which

one would you choose and why?

Yeah, power of flight is what I always say.

And it's definitely pretty basic and a cliche, but I just think it'd be awesome.

It's a classic, you know, it worked.

All right.

Question number six.

If you were a professional wrestler, what would your entrance theme song be?

I think Back in Black.

Okay.

Good choice.

Another classic.

All righty.

Last question.

Um, what's a book or movie that has profoundly impacted

your perspective on life?

And how's it, how's it done that?

I love this one movie.

I forgot what year it's made, um, but I grew up watching it with my dad.

It's called A River Runs Through It.

It's like a fly fishing movie about a dad and his two sons and it

kind of follows the sons through.

Different challenges in life.

And, um, it gives an interesting perspective on, you know, dealing

with hardship, getting through it, getting through things together as

a family and being united on, you know, something like fly fishing

that always brings you back together.

And I grew up fishing with my dad, so that's always been a special movie to me.

Do you fly fish?

I'm really, really bad.

It's like my golf game.

Uh, that's, that's so funny.

Like I, so we just had a guest a few weeks ago on, he lives in,

do you remember where he lives?

Nor Norway maybe, or somewhere?

I don't know.

Uh, he, he's an architect, but he, he hikes up into the mountains

there and goes fly fishing.

And I was, I've been wanting to get into fly fishing for like years.

I just never have done it.

But so we had some good conversation about fly

fishing.

So I actually live in Huntington beach, California.

So it's more, uh, more ocean for me,

not much fly fishing around there.

Well, uh, John, thank you again for your time today.

This was great.

Um, for anyone who wants to get in touch with you, what's

the best way they can do that?

Yeah.

Uh, truebuiltsoftware.

com is our website, or you can email me at John J O N at truebuiltsoftware.

com.

Awesome.

And we will make sure to get that in the show notes.

Awesome.

Um, recap of our challenge words.

We were all successful.

Um, John, your challenge word was bodyguard.

Bodyguard.

And Ethan, yours was

mine was actually golf ball.

So he gave me half credit.

I had golf game or golf.

So, oh, that's right.

I think we'll count it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You get credit for that one.

We round up, I guess.

Yeah.

And my word was chandelier snuck it in, in the beginning there.

Usually I wait till the end.

Uh, I find the challenge, uh, the rapid fire questions is the easiest

time to sneak them in sometimes.

That's true.

I meant to put it in the beginning and that I.

Forgot for a while.

It's

hard.

It's hard.

Came back to it.

Well, good.

We were all successful.

So congrats.

Well, thanks again, John.

Appreciate you being here.

Thank you guys.

It was great to be on.

And thanks so much for tuning into this episode of construction

disruption with John Sibley of Truebill.

Please watch for future episodes of our podcast.

We are always blessed with great guests.

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Until the next time we're together, keep on disrupting and challenging those in

your world to better ways of doing things.

Don't forget to have a positive impact on everyone you encounter.

Make them smile, encourage them to simple yet powerful things we

can all do to change the world.

God bless and take care.

This is Isaiah Industries signing off until the next episode

of Construction Disruption.

This podcast is produced by Isaiah Industries, manufacturer of specialty

metal roofing and other building products.